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I'd like to know the following:

1) What, in your opinion is the fundamental goal?

In CA, for instance, it seems a little odd that a bunch of guys would open carry unloaded weapons into a Coffee shop. Such a display also seems unlikely to "convert" people over and give them "warm fuzzies" about guns.

What I've seen so far is that the open carry advocates 1) find reasons to scrutinize LE, and 2) find reasons to scrutinize small businesses. I don't see how either furthers acceptance of our 2nd Amendment rights.

2) What has the "open carry movement" accomplished? I'm looking for tangible "wins" for us 2nd Amendment proponents.

:popcorn:
 

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I'd like to know the following:

1) What, in your opinion is the fundamental goal?

In CA, for instance, it seems a little odd that a bunch of guys would open carry unloaded weapons into a Coffee shop. Such a display also seems unlikely to "convert" people over and give them "warm fuzzies" about guns.

What I've seen so far is that the open carry advocates 1) find reasons to scrutinize LE, and 2) find reasons to scrutinize small businesses. I don't see how either furthers acceptance of our 2nd Amendment rights.

2) What has the "open carry movement" accomplished? I'm looking for tangible "wins" for us 2nd Amendment proponents.

:popcorn:
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1186294
 

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Not quite what I was referring to. The topic of this thread is really about the advocates and their actions: storming business en mass, attending large gatherings, etc. To me, there's a difference between an individual open carrying and a large group with an obvious political agenda.
It appears those who do such things don't seem to feel the need to justify themselves to you, though.
 

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Leonum A Ignis
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...What I've seen so far is that the open carry advocates 1) find reasons to scrutinize LE, and 2) find reasons to scrutinize small businesses. I don't see how either furthers acceptance of our 2nd Amendment rights.
What you have seen so far where exactly, on the internet? Your making sweeping assumptions that all those who open carry do so because they have a bone to pick with police or are looking to intimidate other people.

Perhaps your overlooking that the possible "fundemental goal" of most open carriers is to legally carry their gun strictly for the purpose of self-defense and nothing more.

Unloaded weapons? Why unload to open carry it? Is there a legal reason for doing that?
That's California for you.
 

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this oc in calif will end as soon as the BGS in LA, discover the oc guys guns are unloaded, when a few are beat down and their guns stolen......just sayen
 

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Stayed alive maybe? My take is simple when I run across someone who feels "uncomfortable" with me and my gun in their proximity. My right to keep the end of my days from taking place far exceeds their "non-right" to feel comfortable.

Now with that said, "What has the open carry movement accomplished?" Well in truth, it matters not what it has accomplished since it is a right (see my first paragraph). But for argument's sake, there is a risk which I do acknowledge - in some states. But not in Virginia. And it is Virginia which I care about.

There are many reasons why people chose to open carry and frankly, I get a little tired of hearing from strong CC supports how the OC'ers are ruining everything. Nuts! That's bullcrap. Ever wonder how it is that a number of CC'ers tend to be very biased against those who OC, but OC'ers are not one bit biased against CC'ers? The reason is simple.

OC'ers do both. I know I do. I CC when I deem it the better choice at the time for me.. no other reason. Most of the time I OC, but there are certainly times when for whatever reason, I will CC.

Bottom line is this. We're all in this together. We are gun owners and gun carriers and whether we CC or OC makes no difference. We are exercising a right.. not a privilege -- unless you are among the unlucky who live in a state which saw fit to restrict your rights.
 

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CZ guy
Just exersising my right to carry my firearm! Just like you do when you carry concealed! Just that I like to OC. Many states that have legal OC it was pushed underground over the years cause it wasn't PC to do- just reaccerting our rights to do it! If you don't like it to bad but since you live in FL you know now that becuase you all didn't do anything to protect OC as a right you lost it! Remember OC was legal at one time in every state!:faint:
 

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I think the vast majority of OC'ers are not driven by an agenda. OC is either their preferred method of carry or the ONLY way they can carry.

These folks go quietly and unobtrusively about their Business and seldom if ever have any problems. They are the ones that respond to the latest, " got harassed by the popo" thread from the OC activists" with post like, " I have OC'ed for years in that area and never had a problem."

Then you have the OC zealots that like to practice an "in your face" confrontational method. They generally accomplish little other than getting previously neutral Businesses to post "No gun signs".
 

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I'd like to know the following:

1) What, in your opinion is the fundamental goal?

2) What has the "open carry movement" accomplished? I'm looking for tangible "wins" for us 2nd Amendment proponents.

In CA, for instance, it seems a little odd that a bunch of guys would open carry unloaded weapons into a Coffee shop. Such a display also seems unlikely to "convert" people over and give them "warm fuzzies" about guns.

What I've seen so far is that the open carry advocates 1) find reasons to scrutinize LE, and 2) find reasons to scrutinize small businesses. I don't see how either furthers acceptance of our 2nd Amendment rights.


:popcorn:
I rearranged your post putting your questions together and your opinions together.

Open carry advocates and activists (That's as strong as I'm going, Dragoon :cool:) differ from state to state, region to region as to goals, expectations, tactics, and motivation. A lot of the difference is based on the laws for or against carrying for self defense in each state. States that forbid open carry, like your State of Florida, Texas and others find open carry advocates using the legislative process to change.

Not quite what I was referring to. The topic of this thread is really about the advocates and their actions: storming business en mass, attending large gatherings, etc. To me, there's a difference between an individual open carrying and a large group with an obvious political agenda.
In states like mine, the Commonwealth of Virginia, where open carry is not prohibited and actually the only way certain persons may carry, advocates and activists fight in the Legislature to protect open carry. Here, open carry is very visible in that legislative process at the General Assembly in Richmond and various city and county government sessions when issues about firearms will be discussed. Virginia state laws and city and county codes are becoming more firearm friendly each year.

Virginia Citizens Defense League, VCDL (vcdl.org) is a grassroots organization spearheading these efforts to improve Virginia's laws and ordinances. They are extremely successful generating support for these positive changes with both those who open carry and those who do not.

VCDL holds social events several times a year. Open carry is encouraged, but it is not the focus of the event. They are gatherings of people who carry for self defense, either openly or concealed, whenever and wherever allowed by law.

Your opinion is that part of the open carry "movement" involves finding reasons to scrutinize LE and businesses. That's an interesting way of saying that. Could you be more definitive as to what you mean by "scrutinize?

Look forward to your response.
 

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A Glock without ammunition equates to a rock with a handle.
HH
But with ammo on hand a Glock can become loaded and charged in a couple of seconds. Don't think you're going to find a rock that can do that. If my only choice was carry without ammo in the gun or don't carry at all, I'd certainly carry without ammo in the gun.
 

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But with ammo on hand a Glock can become loaded and charged in a couple of seconds. Don't think you're going to find a rock that can do that. If my only choice was carry without ammo in the gun or don't carry at all, I'd certainly carry without ammo in the gun.
Can a person in CA carry a loaded magazine in their pocket while ocing?
 

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2) What has the "open carry movement" accomplished? I'm looking for tangible "wins" for us 2nd Amendment proponents.

:popcorn:
The state of Ohio now has CCW. We didn't until a few years back. There were open carry marches and gatherings that raised awareness and support.

Win.
 

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Dragoon has it nailed.

Something I've posted in two other threads and think deserves a place here:

I agree, except I'm in Oregon.

A couple OC'ers do stupid things and get popular in the news, and cast all OC'ers in a bad light. These people are not representative of the OC movement. The vast majority of OC'ers are extremely polite, well dressed men and women who carry themselves with confidence and self assurance, follow the exact letter of the law, and OC only where prudent to do so. They pass through the public without causing a stir or getting arrested, occasionally recieving an odd look and taking every opportunity to educate others.

The vast majority of OC'ers understand that the point of OC is to educate the public, not to cause fright or hysteria. The quack listed in the OP and the idiot with the orange-tipped AK are a disgrace to us all.
The quack I mentioned made an extremely poor choice about where he would OC.

I personally OC because it's more comfortable. I can draw my gun much faster, and I can carry a much bigger gun than I would be able to CC in the summer because I don't have to worry about cover garments. I have had numerous conversations with people, the vast majority of them informative and polite. Educating the populace is a nice byproduct of a much more comfortable way to carry a gun.

I've also noticed parallel's between anti gunners/pro gunners, and the anti OC/pro OC crowd. Anti-gunners say "We won't carry guns and we don't want you to either!" Pro-gunners say "Carry a gun. Or don't. Either way is fine with us, it's your choice." Anti-OC'ers say "We won't OC, and we don't want you to either!" Pro OC'ers say "OC, or CC. Either way is fine with us, it's your choice."
 

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I think the vast majority of OC'ers are not driven by an agenda. OC is either their preferred method of carry or the ONLY way they can carry.

These folks go quietly and unobtrusively about their Business and seldom if ever have any problems. They are the ones that respond to the latest, " got harassed by the popo" thread from the OC activists" with post like, " I have OC'ed for years in that area and never had a problem.".


Sounds like me.


But with ammo on hand a Glock can become loaded and charged in a couple of seconds. Don't think you're going to find a rock that can do that. If my only choice was carry without ammo in the gun or don't carry at all, I'd certainly carry without ammo in the gun.

Yes. Unfortunately in Kali unless you are special enough to receive a carry license (or live in a nice, rural, conservative county) the ONLY legal option for carrying a gun is openly and unloaded with a loaded magazine/speed loader on the other side of your belt
 

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I have written before on this forum that my primary reason for OC'ing is because of my significantly reduced ability to use my legs (knees). I am mobile and do not need a cane or any similar device. But I can no longer run away from trouble nor can I stay and fight as I was once capable of doing because of my knees. A visible gun on my side acts as a warning sign to those who may wish to do bad things to me that it is best to leave me alone.

Granted there are the things about exercising our rights, comfort of carry, ease and speed of access, and a number of other positives. But I don't ever get in anyone's face, look to stir up problems, or just generally make an ass of myself because there is a handgun hanging on my hip. Quite the contrary. I go out of my way to be extra pleasant when armed.
 

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Let's keep our responses focused on the original topic, please. :wavey:

Thanks
 
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