I have found that 15-22+suppressor+steel plate = giggles
Though I as well am a big AR9 fan.
I have found that 15-22+suppressor+steel plate = giggles
Though I as well am a big AR9 fan.
Here's a link to my 10/22 pic and post in the Rimfire Photos thread:
I have both. As well as a bolt action .22 that is flippin' awesome! That being said, if you are looking to be incognito, Ruger. Can appear very meek and mild, or dress it up. The Smith "looks evil". Whatever, they both work well. I have had less feeding issues with my Smith, it was bought a few years ago. The 10/22 about 1988.
If you already own an AR type rifle, the MP15 makes more sense. Think of it as an "understudy" rifle.
I have owned my 10/22 since about 1987 or so. My first rifle and one I still use for possums, rabbits, magpies and the like. Super reliable and very quiet with the suppressor and polymer buffer. Compact, reliable magazines.
I also have a M&P 15/22 and love it for IPSC mini rifle, Speed Steel and similar stuiff on the range. The ergonomics are simply better for that stuff, for me.
The magazines are much bigger, more expensive and if I keep dropping them on the ground, I'm sure they'll break faster then a 10/22 one will.
I love both, but for just one. I'll stick with the 10/22.
It depends what you want to do with the guns. Each seemed to designed for a different purpose. I went for a bolt design for precision shooting at 50yard target.
One 15-22 owner showed a 1" grouping at 50yrds on YouTube. LOL. Clearly, an assault style isn't about precision, but it'd be a lot of fun walking in the woods with.
Kidd guarantees his 10/22 to 1/2" at 50yrds. It should do even better than that.
The bolt design, single load single shot, can do very well but highly dependent on ammo mfgr and how you have " accurized" it.
Again, your choice of gun depends on your application of it. And you can have a gun for each application. If I have 20+ acres of wooded terrain like northern Georgia (Deliverance style) I'd pick the 15-22. But if I have the prairie expanse of Kansas, I'd go for more precision.
I will throw a couple more out there. They are a little pricey but nice Browning BL-22 and SA-22. I think the 10/22 is still more rugged though.
Yes I agree but the ones I’ve been seeing are kinda pricey in my book...
I only own the M&P 15-22, but it is damn near impossible to shoot it without finding a big smile creeping over your face...
concur; got rid of first 15-22 shortly after picking up takedown last year, then ended up reconsidering decision & recently reacquired one. won't make that mistake again.
You would be well served by either.
But, I would go with the 10/22.
It's been around forever and I don't see Ruger discontinuing it any time soon. EVERY part can be replaced by OEM or aftermarket. It is absolutely infinitely customizable.
It can be turned into anything you want; AR, MG42, M1 carbine, Tommy Gun, bullpup, etc.
Magazines are very durable and compact (10 rounders).
The rifle is very durable. I have had mine since 1988 when my dad gave it to me and it was given to him in 1965 by my mom.
Enjoy whichever one you get.
For me it would be the 10/22.
So many choices in the 10/22 line and lots of aftermarket if you like to tinker.
I like Smith & Wesson for revolvers, but not much else.
The MP15-22 is sexier, but the 10-22 is probably simpler, sturdier, has more available accessories, is less likely to run afoul of anti-gun legislation.
You need to consider what's the present and future purpose of this firearm.
I like my 15-22, but you can do a lot to upgrade your 10-22., triggers , barrels endless items.
I have a Charger and my only gripe is with the wood stock acting as the magwell, you see lots of different opinions on what is a reliable mag and I think it’s this variance that’s the cause of it. There’s fixes for it, but the 15-22 is really the better choice for an out of the box don’t wanna mess with it option.
best reason for a 10/22 or Charger is my GSG 110 round drum.
And the fact that either option plus the drum is much cheaper than the 15-22.
My Charger is the takedown version and if I had to do it all over again, I’d skip the takedown. For my needs the cons outweigh the pros.
I havent had any experience with the S&W AR semiclone but I did buy a 10-22 sporter in or about 1968 for the exhorbitant sum of 87.50$. Its light, handy, accurate, reliable, dependable and on. It has hiccuped on some white box super cheap ammo, but on quality stuff it has been flawless. I like it because its traditional walnut and blued steel.
The S&W is just another good mechanism in a different outfit. Just like buying a car. Interstate cruiser, in town commuter or rock crawler. Purposes like AR series intro and traing, this would certainly be ideal.
I understand what you're saying, but must make the point (at least for myself) that my choices can't be because I fear that someone in the Govt is coming for them. That said, I won't make them for the opposite reason either.
But that could also be a negative...
What started as a fun shooter becomes an obsession....
I’ve decided, just recently, to build a 10/22. I really thought about buying a cmmg dedicated 22lr upper, but at the end of the day the accessories and parts available for the 10/22 made it an easy decision.
I looked into 22lr conversions and uppers before I got my 10/22. There's too many negatives for me to screw up an AR just to shoot 22lr on it. I also considered the M&P15-22 but thought it was too bulky for a fun 22 plinker.
Exactly. There’s too many proprietary designs. Ultimately, a 10/22 is the AR of the 22lr world .
Had I known then what I know now, I would've just bought a 10/22 receiver and start from there. But then I wouldn't have the cool little takedown bag .
But a conversion upper seems like it could have some benefits.
Can plink with cheap ammo.
For non-match practical course practice, same feel as regular AR so good practice.
With registered lower can be NFA.
Yes, there are benefits for some but I was strictly talking about MY needs.
22lr conversions are hard on AR lowers and if you have aftermarket triggers, can damage or break them. That's why I started looking at the MP15-22. Then I realized that I'd rather have a 10/22 over a faux AR.
I've never heard about .22lr conversions being hard on a lower. Can't say I have experienced any issues with mine.
I don't like AR's so I don't want an AR look-alike. However, I do like M1 carbines and there are 10-22 kits based on M1 Carbines .
There are two things that will most improve the accuracy of the 10-22 with the least amount of modification. One is a custom trigger and even the Ruger BX trigger is pretty good.
The other thing that is helpful either with a standard barrel or a bull barrel, is the Tactical Innovations Adjustable V-Block which prevent barrel droop and tightens the barrel square to the receiver.
The next step up in accuracy improvement with a 10-22 is a bull Barrel but that requires a custom stock. The exception to that is the Ruger 10-22 charger which already has a free floated heavy barrel and after market brarrels will fit in the same stock. Also I think standard barrels can be but for a Bentz match chamber but I doun't know if that requires milling the breech face.
It's the blowback design that's hard on the hammer. It can and does break aftermarket hammers fairly frequently (Geiselle from memory). The Milspec hammer seems to last a bit longer.
The USAF (primarily the ATC, Air Training Command) used to run a military version of a .22 Rimfire Adapter Kit in the old M16 and M16A1 rifes many years ago, and when they were used, we would break hammer pins on a regular basis. Eventually, it got so bad that many of the instructors/RSOs would carry spare hammer pins (and a firing pin to change them) in their pockets, to minimize downtime during training and qualifications. When they finally they got rid of the darn things, we cheered. The mags were fragile, and the residue from the rimfire cartridges used to gunk-up the inside of the lower receivers terribly.
I can't seem to find pics but from memory, there were a few aftermarket hammers that cracked or completely broke off while using a 22lr upper or bcg swap. The hammer pin failure sounds familiar too. This was about 5+ yrs ago when I was doing my research so my memory is kinda fuzzy. Geissele warned not to use their triggers with 22lr conversions but warrantied the guy's trigger as a goodwill gesture.
One .22lr rifle could never be enough. I went down the 10/22 rabbit hole a few years ago, it has been fun and expensive. I just think of all the money I save shooting .22 lr.
In my opinion standard AR15 rifles with .22LR conversions installed aren't that great for a few reasons...the typically encountered 5.56 rifling twist rates of 1:7 to 1:10 will overstabilize standard 36 or 40 gr .22LR bullets (1:16 is standard for the .22LR), the .223" bore is a touch larger than the .22LR so there's inherent inaccuracy potential, there's the risk of lead shavings clogging up the gas port of the barrel from the .22LR lead projectiles, etc.
I've never had any interest in a rimfire AR15 rifle, but I do have recent interest in a rimfire AR pistol to use as a suppressor host, and what I mentioned above is why I've decided on building a dedicated .22LR AR pistol instead of using conversion parts on a 5.56 pistol. And if one day I were to find myself interested in a .22LR AR rifle, I would use the very same logic for that build as well.
All those issues came up during my research. The 1:7 to 1:9 typical of AR barrels isn't much of an issue with 36 to 40g projectiles from many that use the drop in bolt conversions. The slight oversized bore is also not an issue, even with accuracy from many reports but they were all plinkers. I don't think anyone would expect match type accuracy. It is recommended to fire a few rounds of .223 or 5.56 after every couple of hundred rounds of 22lr to clear the gas tube.
I also thought about just building a dedicated 22lr upper with a proper 1:16 twist barrel but then the issue with the hammers came up and at that point I scrapped the idea but I also found a 10/22 takedown for a great price so that settled it for me.
I've always wanted one of those .22 Browning rifles that eject out the bottom.
I’ve run across several (new n used) and yet have not purchased. (Why am I draggin’ my Azzzz???)
Yeah I was splitting hairs regarding rifling twists, the slightly oversize bore, etc., but even though these things are considered minor, they are the downsides. And regarding accuracy...I've heard the opposite regarding shooting 36 & 40gr through a 1:7-1:9 - with many folks reporting terrible accuracy.
The only hammer issues I've heard of were in regards to the ".22 conversion kits" whereas it is highly recommended that a "round" hammer be used. And in regards to the CMMG firing pins breaking, that was attributed to CMMG not chamfering the edges of their firing pins; when this was addressed the broken firing pin issue went away.
For only a small investment in money the dedicated .22LR pistol is worth a try for me. I've got a complete pistol lower and a CMMG dedicated 4.5" barrel and bolt assembly on hand, and am currently waiting on a bare upper and barrel nut, so I should have some feedback within the next week or so
All those issues are worth mentioning for those interested and what is important to them. At far as accuracy, ARF guys were mostly in agreement that it was fairly accurate and only a few that said the accuracy was terrible. I don't think anyone ever got to the reason for the bad accuracy but the vast majority said it was decent to good.
I'm pretty sure the hammer issues were mostly aftermarket hammers but there were a few stock hammers.
I was very close to building a dedicated 22lr upper but the barrel was very hard to find in stock anywhere. Used ones were going for the same price as new and sold just as fast. I think that's why I jumped on the 10/22 TD. It was fun to learn a new platform and just as customizable as the AR.
We all know it's been absolutely crazy out there for a while now when trying to find AR related parts, but inventory is slowly coming back. Perhaps sometime in the near future you'll be able to go the dedicated .22 AR route
I don't shoot much rifle anymore, and was never really a fan of the .22 rimfire, but when I decided to get a .22 suppressor it opened up a whole new window for me and before I knew it I was piling up host pistols, and being interested in the Ruger 10/22 Charger pistol I did some research on components and decided to build a Charger clone. Between the kazillion different aftermarket parts available for these firearms it took me months of perusing the different vendors before I decided on a single part. I'm not a cookie cutter kind of guy and wasn't simply going to go with what everybody else was buying like aluminum chassis systems, matching color anodized receivers, trigger groups, and other accoutrements...I just wanted something simple but different.
So this is what I ended up with...it's not flashy nor is it high dollar:
The dedicated .22 AR pistol that I'm building will follow a similar trend of simplicity; a standard lower, a simple non-forward assist/no ejection port cover upper, a 4.5" barrel, and will be fabricating a handguard for it since I don't care for the round floating tube or the typical Keymod or M-Lok type handguards that are so prevelant on nearly every AR you see today. I'm also not fond of the typical AR pistol grip, feeling that they're huge (note the short Troy Battle Ax grip on my Charger clone above) and unnecessarily tall for the light recoil of the .22LR cartridge, so I'll either use another Troy grip or fabricate something perhaps at more of a raked angle.
I'm looking forward to things getting back to normal, and I hope it's soon! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I was looking for parts 3-4 yrs ago. 22lr parts for AR uppers were scarce back then. Even pre-built uppers were hard to find. The bolt conversions (CMMG) usually came in stock every few months but that's about it for parts. I'm over it now since I got the 10/22 TD.
At this point, if I ever wanted an AR 22lr, I'd probably go with the M&P15-22 but I think I'm over it. I'm really happy with my 10/22.
I certainly remember the timeframe you're speaking of, and it was frustrating enough to make a person lose interest in the idea.
It's definately not hard to like the 10/22 platform over most others for a number of reasons; it was designed from the ground up for the .22LR cartridge, it has a small/thin footprint, and you generally don't need any real expertise or special tools to work on or build them. Not to mention that they're rediculously easy to convert into so many different configurations, especially the Ruger Charger pistol. The ability to swap out the pistol length barrel for a rifle length barrel and add a stabilizing brace is a great option, and when you're done with that setup it's simply a matter of replacing the rifle barrel with the pistol barrel of your choice and you're ready for close work/fun plinking.
The latter was my main purpose for deciding on and building a Charger clone...so I could have the ability to change and enjoy different .22LR platforms at will, legally.
I'm glad that you're happy with your 10/22 TD I've considered one of the takedown models in the past, but after building the Charger clone the idea of a takedown 10/22 seemed a bit redundant.
Yes, but it is very easy to convert to LRHO. Lot's of Steven Spielberg wannabes on You tube will show how, or one already made as an aftermarket part.
The Thompson/Center clone is a very fine rifle. Too bad they're not offered any longer.