One semi rimfire rifle - 10/22 or MP15-22 or ??

Discussion in 'Rimfire Forum' started by Grabbrass, Jul 4, 2020.

  1. BC42

    BC42

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    It's the blowback design that's hard on the hammer. It can and does break aftermarket hammers fairly frequently (Geiselle from memory). The Milspec hammer seems to last a bit longer.
     
  2. jmohme

    jmohme

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    Agreed on both counts. That 10/22 M1 knock off is one sexy gun!
    21138.jpg
    I really wish that Ruger would do that with that butt ugly PC9 Carbine.
     
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  3. Glock17193643

    Glock17193643

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  4. DJ Niner

    DJ Niner Staff Member Moderator

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    The USAF (primarily the ATC, Air Training Command) used to run a military version of a .22 Rimfire Adapter Kit in the old M16 and M16A1 rifes many years ago, and when they were used, we would break hammer pins on a regular basis. Eventually, it got so bad that many of the instructors/RSOs would carry spare hammer pins (and a firing pin to change them) in their pockets, to minimize downtime during training and qualifications. When they finally they got rid of the darn things, we cheered. The mags were fragile, and the residue from the rimfire cartridges used to gunk-up the inside of the lower receivers terribly.
     
  5. BC42

    BC42

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    I can't seem to find pics but from memory, there were a few aftermarket hammers that cracked or completely broke off while using a 22lr upper or bcg swap. The hammer pin failure sounds familiar too. This was about 5+ yrs ago when I was doing my research so my memory is kinda fuzzy. Geissele warned not to use their triggers with 22lr conversions but warrantied the guy's trigger as a goodwill gesture.
     
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  6. stevebla

    stevebla

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    One .22lr rifle could never be enough. I went down the 10/22 rabbit hole a few years ago, it has been fun and expensive. I just think of all the money I save shooting .22 lr.
     
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  7. DrewBone

    DrewBone

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    In my opinion standard AR15 rifles with .22LR conversions installed aren't that great for a few reasons...the typically encountered 5.56 rifling twist rates of 1:7 to 1:10 will overstabilize standard 36 or 40 gr .22LR bullets (1:16 is standard for the .22LR), the .223" bore is a touch larger than the .22LR so there's inherent inaccuracy potential, there's the risk of lead shavings clogging up the gas port of the barrel from the .22LR lead projectiles, etc.

    I've never had any interest in a rimfire AR15 rifle, but I do have recent interest in a rimfire AR pistol to use as a suppressor host, and what I mentioned above is why I've decided on building a dedicated .22LR AR pistol instead of using conversion parts on a 5.56 pistol. And if one day I were to find myself interested in a .22LR AR rifle, I would use the very same logic for that build as well.
     
  8. BC42

    BC42

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    All those issues came up during my research. The 1:7 to 1:9 typical of AR barrels isn't much of an issue with 36 to 40g projectiles from many that use the drop in bolt conversions. The slight oversized bore is also not an issue, even with accuracy from many reports but they were all plinkers. I don't think anyone would expect match type accuracy. It is recommended to fire a few rounds of .223 or 5.56 after every couple of hundred rounds of 22lr to clear the gas tube.

    I also thought about just building a dedicated 22lr upper with a proper 1:16 twist barrel but then the issue with the hammers came up and at that point I scrapped the idea but I also found a 10/22 takedown for a great price so that settled it for me.
     
  9. lazarus66

    lazarus66

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    I've always wanted one of those .22 Browning rifles that eject out the bottom.
     
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  10. V Gehts

    V Gehts

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    Me too!
    I’ve run across several (new n used) and yet have not purchased. (Why am I draggin’ my Azzzz???)
     
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  11. DrewBone

    DrewBone

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    Yeah I was splitting hairs regarding rifling twists, the slightly oversize bore, etc., but even though these things are considered minor, they are the downsides. And regarding accuracy...I've heard the opposite regarding shooting 36 & 40gr through a 1:7-1:9 - with many folks reporting terrible accuracy.

    The only hammer issues I've heard of were in regards to the ".22 conversion kits" whereas it is highly recommended that a "round" hammer be used. And in regards to the CMMG firing pins breaking, that was attributed to CMMG not chamfering the edges of their firing pins; when this was addressed the broken firing pin issue went away.

    For only a small investment in money the dedicated .22LR pistol is worth a try for me. I've got a complete pistol lower and a CMMG dedicated 4.5" barrel and bolt assembly on hand, and am currently waiting on a bare upper and barrel nut, so I should have some feedback within the next week or so :)
     
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  12. BC42

    BC42

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    All those issues are worth mentioning for those interested and what is important to them. At far as accuracy, ARF guys were mostly in agreement that it was fairly accurate and only a few that said the accuracy was terrible. I don't think anyone ever got to the reason for the bad accuracy but the vast majority said it was decent to good.

    I'm pretty sure the hammer issues were mostly aftermarket hammers but there were a few stock hammers.

    I was very close to building a dedicated 22lr upper but the barrel was very hard to find in stock anywhere. Used ones were going for the same price as new and sold just as fast. I think that's why I jumped on the 10/22 TD. It was fun to learn a new platform and just as customizable as the AR.
     
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  13. DrewBone

    DrewBone

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    We all know it's been absolutely crazy out there for a while now when trying to find AR related parts, but inventory is slowly coming back. Perhaps sometime in the near future you'll be able to go the dedicated .22 AR route :)

    I don't shoot much rifle anymore, and was never really a fan of the .22 rimfire, but when I decided to get a .22 suppressor it opened up a whole new window for me and before I knew it I was piling up host pistols, and being interested in the Ruger 10/22 Charger pistol I did some research on components and decided to build a Charger clone. Between the kazillion different aftermarket parts available for these firearms it took me months of perusing the different vendors before I decided on a single part. I'm not a cookie cutter kind of guy and wasn't simply going to go with what everybody else was buying like aluminum chassis systems, matching color anodized receivers, trigger groups, and other accoutrements...I just wanted something simple but different.

    So this is what I ended up with...it's not flashy nor is it high dollar:

    20200316_160330.jpg

    The dedicated .22 AR pistol that I'm building will follow a similar trend of simplicity; a standard lower, a simple non-forward assist/no ejection port cover upper, a 4.5" barrel, and will be fabricating a handguard for it since I don't care for the round floating tube or the typical Keymod or M-Lok type handguards that are so prevelant on nearly every AR you see today. I'm also not fond of the typical AR pistol grip, feeling that they're huge (note the short Troy Battle Ax grip on my Charger clone above) and unnecessarily tall for the light recoil of the .22LR cartridge, so I'll either use another Troy grip or fabricate something perhaps at more of a raked angle.

    I'm looking forward to things getting back to normal, and I hope it's soon! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
     
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  14. BC42

    BC42

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    I was looking for parts 3-4 yrs ago. 22lr parts for AR uppers were scarce back then. Even pre-built uppers were hard to find. The bolt conversions (CMMG) usually came in stock every few months but that's about it for parts. I'm over it now since I got the 10/22 TD.

    At this point, if I ever wanted an AR 22lr, I'd probably go with the M&P15-22 but I think I'm over it. I'm really happy with my 10/22.
     
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  15. DrewBone

    DrewBone

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    I certainly remember the timeframe you're speaking of, and it was frustrating enough to make a person lose interest in the idea.

    It's definately not hard to like the 10/22 platform over most others for a number of reasons; it was designed from the ground up for the .22LR cartridge, it has a small/thin footprint, and you generally don't need any real expertise or special tools to work on or build them. Not to mention that they're rediculously easy to convert into so many different configurations, especially the Ruger Charger pistol. The ability to swap out the pistol length barrel for a rifle length barrel and add a stabilizing brace is a great option, and when you're done with that setup it's simply a matter of replacing the rifle barrel with the pistol barrel of your choice and you're ready for close work/fun plinking.

    The latter was my main purpose for deciding on and building a Charger clone...so I could have the ability to change and enjoy different .22LR platforms at will, legally.

    I'm glad that you're happy with your 10/22 TD :D I've considered one of the takedown models in the past, but after building the Charger clone the idea of a takedown 10/22 seemed a bit redundant.
     
  16. DAW9347

    DAW9347 Patron Life NRA Member

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    Yes, but it is very easy to convert to LRHO. Lot's of Steven Spielberg wannabes on You tube will show how, or one already made as an aftermarket part.
    The Thompson/Center clone is a very fine rifle. Too bad they're not offered any longer.