"ON" cell location services allows LEO searches

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Paul53, Jun 2, 2016.

  1. Paul53

    Paul53 You local friendly Skynet dealer

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  2. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Because you knowingly are giving the information to third parties. If criminals are too dumb to realize that that's their problem. However, why then doesn't the same apply to, say, email? You're knowingly giving Yahoo, Google, or whomever, access to that too.
     
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  3. wprebeck

    wprebeck Have you seen me?

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    Well, I'll be honest - I don't really care one way or the other.

    I've always assumed that, if LE wanted me for something, they'd get a warrant. I know that my phone data is subject to a warrant, and it's not all that hard to get one. I also know, from personal experience, that agencies will often seek a warrant even if one is not needed, so that court challenges to the evidence will not stand.

    In this day, with the tech out there, I just assume that anyone with a halfway good reason can access my information. What I'm worried about isn't the government, it's the people who work at the phone company and other places that have access to my data. Working where I do, I see where criminals work. They don't always have jobs that require them to do heavy lifting or asking if you want to supersize your value meal. A number of people, who commit really bad crimes, have really good white collar jobs. It's easy enough for them to get what data they want from you, and sell it to other unscrupulous people.
     
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  4. rudeguy

    rudeguy

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    The good news is that this is an important step towards getting a ruling from the SCOTUS. Sometimes you have to lose a battle or two to win the war.
     
  5. ken grant

    ken grant

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    I don't have to worry about that ruling.
    The only phone I have is a landline at my home which I have had for a large number of years with the same number I started with.
     
  6. Paul53

    Paul53 You local friendly Skynet dealer

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    Having heard that some places frequently confiscate your cash "just because" I want to protect my good name and reputation. I am always pro cop, but have had some unwaranted bad experiences.
     
  7. RenegadeGlocker

    RenegadeGlocker SuperOwner

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    Let's add confessions to your defense attorney or priest too, to the list of the things the cops can get access too!
     
  8. rudeguy

    rudeguy

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    I've worked in cellular since 1999. I also spent time at a large cable, internet and phone provider. I'm a nerd. I'm also a fierce Conservative.

    I understand how the technology works and why there are so many grey areas. Its not like the old days when your cell phone pinged a tower every minute or so and that cellular companies only logged that when law enforcement got a court order. Modern cell phones constantly communicate with the towers, switches and servers. All of that data is logged by the providers and third party vendors. This data is essential to the modern communications network. The companies store this data because they need it. Law enforcement is always looking for new tools to solve crimes and catch bad guys. These piles of data could do a lot of good and could honestly save lives.

    The problem is there is a point where your information stops being your information and starts being the companies' information. Is your phone number your information? Yes. That is without question. Is the data you transmit over a network your information? It could be argued that it stops being your information as soon as you transmit it. Is your location your information? Yes. Is your phone's location your cellular company's information? Yes. At what point does what information stop being your and start being another company's information?

    That is why these cases need to happen and they need to go to the SCOTUS. The more conflicting rulings we get, the better. We need the SCOTUS to decide what information belongs to who and when. Until that time, there will continue to be confusion.

    In the meantime, relax. Apple, Google, Samsung, AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, etc, all know where you are right now and can find where you have been very easily. This is not anything new. Police have always been able to get these records very easily. That is nothing new. The only thing new is the media trying to convince people that being tracked is some sort of invasion of privacy. Its not. Its essential to the operation of the network and the services. If you don't want to be tracked, turn off your phone.
     
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  9. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    It may be interesting if it ends up at the Supreme Court. My guess is that often maybe even a lot they will want more than just the location and will usually get a warrant because of that.
     
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  10. BobbyS

    BobbyS Truth always sounds like lies to a sinner

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    The "man" will be taking care of that issue before long.
     
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  11. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    I don't think they have ever needed to get a warrant for the location of a land line. But they did for a pin register. Sigh. I feel old.
     
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  12. ClydeG19

    ClydeG19

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    This may be common practice in areas covered by other district courts. Generally, to get records kept in the normal course of business such as previous locations, call and text to/from data, time and length of calls, etc the police has only needed a court order and not a search warrant. To get text content, current location, or the ability to listen to calls, you certainly need a warrant.

    Now I don't go routinely go to the phone companies to request the basic data, but that doesn't mean orgs like the NSA aren't. The argument is that once you sign the contract and hit send on that call, the data belongs to the phone company and not you.
     
  13. Sharkey

    Sharkey

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    Track my location b**ches! My life isn't that interesting. I guess turn location services off?
     
  14. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    As I was reading this earlier there was a Metro PCS store across the parking lot. I was thinking of getting half a dozen phones for cash, then sending the numbers to everyone who has my number and tell them from now on from seven minutes after the hour until nine minutes after the hour try the six numbers if you need to reach me because I will turn a random one of the six on for two minutes. Otherwise I will be "dark " so they can't find me. Then I remembered that I am not that cool and no one cares where I am at. Instead I had some wine.
     
  15. janice6

    janice6

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    My County dispatcher frequently gets calls for assistance and is able to send help to within "X"# of feet, with "X" % of confidence, of the location of the phone. The above post is right. You might get worked up about the wrong thing.
     
  16. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

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    It doesn't sound like this is a legal issue the SCOTUS will hear. This is the third or fourth (???) Court of Appeals that have upheld this, and no other Court of Appeals (to my knowledge) has held otherwise.
     
  17. CAcop

    CAcop

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    We use location for reports of suicidal people or missing people that are endangered. We are supposed to follow up with a court order but I don't think we do. Some don't give us info but they are rare.

    For an actual investigation where we have time on our side we will get a warrant so we know it should stand up in court since a judge is signing it.
     
  18. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

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    It's no secret that technology exists to track your location, in real time, and that information is/can be sold to vendors. For example, you're traveling N/B on I-95 in SC, approaching exit 3 and it's 6 pm. The technology exists for Motel 6 to send you a text telling you that there's a Motel 6 at exit 3 and it has vacancy. And Walmart texts you that at that same exit, a Walmart sells cold beer and is open until midnight.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  19. jethro21

    jethro21

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    While it might say this is an option for law enforcement, I can say from experience- good luck getting the cell phone providers to do it, at least in the metro Phoenix area.

    We can't get phone companies to ping phones for missing juveniles/vulnerable adults, valid and just occurred armed robberies where the phone was taken and numerous other instances, including those where the victim is present and consenting to the track on the phone to the company. They want court orders. And truthfully, while frustrating for the instances I listed above, I am ok with their stand.
     
  20. Agent6-3/8

    Agent6-3/8

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    I can't get the link to open for me, but...

    In my experience, to get geo-location information, (i.e. to ping or track a phone) we must have either some form of exigent circumstances or obtain a search warrant for the data. Providers don't just give this info away like candy.