[MedicineBow]

Glocks are often rumored at not very tolerant of sharp shouldered SWC bullets, not so much with feeding issues, but during extraction, as often the shoulder catches the case of the round being extracted, causing stovepipes, etc... (many folks can defeat this by seating the shoulder about flush or almost flush with the case mouth, however...)

This is not a rumor in my case. I have a Glock 30SF. I understand that the 30S is built on an “SF” frame. As I understand it from the web, the slide to frame geometry is a little different in the SF models than the regular 30 in order to accommodate the shortening of the frame. In any event, my gun will not function with 200 grain lead SWC rounds. It is not a feeding problem but an ejection problem. The rear of the fired case (the rim) hits the flat part of the bullet of the top cartridge in the magazine and leaves a half moon mark and hangs up or only partially ejects. Apparently, at least the 30SF versions need a curvier bullet for the spent case to ride over the top cartridge in the magazine and eject properly. I have never experienced a malfunction with a round nose or hollow point round in the gun. (So, a curvier bullet with a flat point should be ok. I have fired Buffalo Bore +P 255 hard cast flat point out of the gun with no problems.)

I tried numerous variations of bullet, seating depth and crimp with SWC bullets and just could not make it work. I decided that it was not worth it to me to bother trying to make special ammo for one type of gun. It kinda detracts from shooting it because component prices go up as the weight of the bullet increases.

Others report that this problem does not occur with Glock 21 models. I can’t speak to the regular Glock 30 in Gen 3 or Gen 4.

 

[WeeWilly]

Thanks WW, would you mind a short explanation on the slower powders as noted above in bold?
Thx!

I can try.

With slower burning powders, pressure is a larger part of their burn efficiency. Slower powders that are started with a lot of free space left in the case, don't get a chance to get up to their ideal pressure for burn efficiency before the bullet starts moving.

Very fast powders burn relatively efficiently even when starting with quite a bit of free space, most even need a little as a buffer to assure pressures don't spike too quickly, causing an over pressure. That is why OAL (or more accurately, seating depth) matters so much more with faster powders, versus slower powders.

My SD load practice simulator (loaded to simulate my carry round of 124gr +P HST) uses 6.2gr of BE-86, a powder quite a bit slower than say WST, Clays, Bullseye, Titegroup, etc.). This powder charge is over 100% load density, that is, it is compressed. It burns very cleanly in this setup. If I go down to say Hodgdon non-+P start load charge level of BE-86, I get some free space in the case after I seat the bullet to my normal OAL. This load burns pretty dirty, with a fair amount of "debris" floating around after the shot. Combustion was less than efficient. It still will go bang, you are just using a lot of powder for a pretty anemic velocity and some unburned/partially powder.

If I charge the same case with a middle of the book load Titegroup charge and seat the bullet so it is a compressed charge, I would get a case head kaboom, an ejected magazine and maybe a broken gun.

Make sense?

 

[Trog]

I have been using 5 grains of 231/HP38 in my G30s with 230 gr coated bullets from SNS. Feeds without problems, clean, and accurate.

 

[DWB57]

Anyone have any experience with Alliant Sport Pistol?

I have been using sport pistol in 9mm have not used it in 45acp yet. I'm really liking it,it's clean and very accurate the data is very similar to W-231. I need to work up soom loads for the 45 just hadn't done it yet.

 

[SmokelessPowder]

Is this due to being double base powders?

Looking in my loading manuals I could see that AA5 could be used to make high power rounds. I tried it and liked it. I've never tried to figure out the "why" a powder performs the way it does because I don't think it's any one thing.

 

[bettysnephew]

There is a guy by the name of Bruce Gray that is fairly highly thought of in some other pistol circles. I know he has done some work on Glocks, but I digress. He wrote a very well researched article on the issues that occur with 45 caliber pistols with barrel lengths less than 4 inches and goes into detail as to why they can be problematic. It is worth a read if you can locate it. If I recall it was something like Physics and short barrel 45 pistols. He didn't say they won't work just that they can be very issue prone due to the dimensions available for getting reliable functioning correct. I personally tend to respect his views as he has been a lot further into making pistols operate reliably than most folks.

 

[CountryBoy66]

Boy, do I have a dog in this fight! I just finished trying several loads with different powders with my new G30 G3. Having shot .45 for over 40 years, I was used to plunking a SWC (either a H&G 68 copy or the Lee 200 TL) over a decent charge of whatever and having it make nice friendly holes in the paper. Not so much with the 30. I messed about with OAL, as WeeWilly pointed out, spent much effort and came to the conclusion that it only really likes my Lee 230 RN TL bullet. Too bad...some of those loads were very accurate but if the gun has turned into a single-shot, who cares? The two most accurate loads I've found so far are 4.2/TG and 5.0/231. Various charges of Long Shot (promising), Unique, Bullseye, 7625 and Universal left much to be desired. One thing I did not do was to try more than 1 or 2 loads with each powder; maybe if I loaded 5 of each powder at different weights it might be different. But, I was looking for a starting place only and didn't have the time to go all Skeeter Skelton on it by generating a 4-inch-long table of loads. My "OCD-ness" pays off sometimes...at least I have 2 loads (the Tite Group and 231) that are fairly accurate. My only issue is that the velocities are way low; from past experience with .45s with shorter barrels (Ruger American Compact, Kahr, etc.) velocities were +/- 700 fps. I'm getting, like, 665 fps. These are out of the 3.78" Lone Wolf barrel. Does this happen to anyone else? At least I get the wheel weights free.... Any other similar experiences out there? This is my first Glock; still learning.

 

[rebs]

My Glock 21 shoots everything but my Glock 30s wants the 200 lswc's to be seated to 1.248 to 1.250

 

[gator378]

I was thinking the 30S however it seems there is more recoil with that being lighter than the 30SF or the 30 gen 4 which is is essentially the same as the 30SF with a few enhancements.
Whichever one will be an edc and I will compete with it for practice and to gain competency.

My question now is about powder. I have a 43 & 19/4 and have only used TG to reload my practice and competition rounds due to the deal I got on it, and have a ton left... If TG is a top choice then fine however I don't want to use it just because I have so much if there is better..?
Opinions please...
Thanks in advance from G!

I use Accurate #5 in the G21 and G30.

 

[Thomas Anton]

5.5 grns. of WW231 and a 200 grn LSWC is a proven accuracy load and shoots phenomenally well out of my 1911's. But when I bought my 30SF in 08 I switched to Berry's plated 200 grn RN bullet, because of Glock's hexagonal rifling, with same charge and it shoots under 2in at 25 yds off a sand bag, so I'm sticking with it! I use a Berry's 115 plated with 5.9 grns of AA#2 with the same results in my Glock 9's. I don't know why, but AA#2 gives significantly better accuracy than 231 in 9mm. 0 stoppages, well over 50k rnds.

 

[GLOCKITIUS]

I can try.

With slower burning powders, pressure is a larger part of their burn efficiency. Slower powders that are started with a lot of free space left in the case, don't get a chance to get up to their ideal pressure for burn efficiency before the bullet starts moving.

Very fast powders burn relatively efficiently even when starting with quite a bit of free space, most even need a little as a buffer to assure pressures don't spike too quickly, causing an over pressure. That is why OAL (or more accurately, seating depth) matters so much more with faster powders, versus slower powders.

My SD load practice simulator (loaded to simulate my carry round of 124gr +P HST) uses 6.2gr of BE-86, a powder quite a bit slower than say WST, Clays, Bullseye, Titegroup, etc.). This powder charge is over 100% load density, that is, it is compressed. It burns very cleanly in this setup. If I go down to say Hodgdon non-+P start load charge level of BE-86, I get some free space in the case after I seat the bullet to my normal OAL. This load burns pretty dirty, with a fair amount of "debris" floating around after the shot. Combustion was less than efficient. It still will go bang, you are just using a lot of powder for a pretty anemic velocity and some unburned/partially powder.

If I charge the same case with a middle of the book load Titegroup charge and seat the bullet so it is a compressed charge, I would get a case head kaboom, an ejected magazine and maybe a broken gun.

Make sense?

Thank you WW, yes it makes sense however the more one learns the more questions there are! What charts do I look at to be able to research and cross reference stats to make a determination?

 

[WeeWilly]

Thank you WW, yes it makes sense however the more one learns the more questions there are! What charts do I look at to be able to research and cross reference stats to make a determination?

The best place to start is the powder makers own web sites. If a powder isn't listed for a load you are looking for it was probably left off for a reason. Sometimes it is because their ballistician's found something they didn't like about the combination, sometimes for marketing reasons where they just would rather hawk a particular offering. Sometimes you won't find a fast powder, heavy bullet combination in their data because there isn't a big enough margin for error from their point of view. Many times you will find, especially with target loads, that something fast for a heavy bullet is everyone's favorite and yet nothing in the load data exists.

There seems to be a great reference work that Dudel has posted a number of times here that outlines all the different powders and their characteristics. Maybe PM him and he can provide a link.

For my own part, most everything is from experience, trying different powders and different loads and learning myself what they do. A burn rate chart (Hodgdon, Lapua (VV powders) and others publish these) can get you in the ball park of what to expect. Another way is just to ask here and guys will tell you what they like.

 

[friej]

I was thinking the 30S however it seems there is more recoil with that being lighter than the 30SF or the 30 gen 4 which is is essentially the same as the 30SF with a few enhancements.
Whichever one will be an edc and I will compete with it for practice and to gain competency.

My question now is about powder. I have a 43 & 19/4 and have only used TG to reload my practice and competition rounds due to the deal I got on it, and have a ton left... If TG is a top choice then fine however I don't want to use it just because I have so much if there is better..?
Opinions please...
Thanks in advance from G!

 

[GLOCKITIUS]

The best place to start is the powder makers own web sites. If a powder isn't listed for a load you are looking for it was probably left off for a reason. Sometimes it is because their ballistician's found something they didn't like about the combination, sometimes for marketing reasons where they just would rather hawk a particular offering. Sometimes you won't find a fast powder, heavy bullet combination in their data because there isn't a big enough margin for error from their point of view. Many times you will find, especially with target loads, that something fast for a heavy bullet is everyone's favorite and yet nothing in the load data exists.

There seems to be a great reference work that Dudel has posted a number of times here that outlines all the different powders and their characteristics. Maybe PM him and he can provide a link.

For my own part, most everything is from experience, trying different powders and different loads and learning myself what they do. A burn rate chart (Hodgdon, Lapua (VV powders) and others publish these) can get you in the ball park of what to expect. Another way is just to ask here and guys will tell you what they like.

All is much appreciated, I'll stay on this...

 

[friej]

I was thinking the 30S however it seems there is more recoil with that being lighter than the 30SF or the 30 gen 4 which is is essentially the same as the 30SF with a few enhancements.
Whichever one will be an edc and I will compete with it for practice and to gain competency.

My question now is about powder. I have a 43 & 19/4 and have only used TG to reload my practice and competition rounds due to the deal I got on it, and have a ton left... If TG is a top choice then fine however I don't want to use it just because I have so much if there is better..?
Opinions please...
Thanks in advance from G!

I know this doesn’t answer your powder question but i van definitely speak on your gun choice. 7 days a week 365 days a year for 10 + years. Awesome piece!!

 

[Robert Estrada]

I love my G30 first time out I shot every ammo you could think of. Ammo from Mexico to high end ammo (I don’t reload nor have ever shot reloads in anyone of my guns) never had a misfire has never jammed. It’s not the 30sf I have rather big hands I wear a 17 size ring. Anyhow in my opinion you can’t go wrong with either one and the recoil isn’t bad I load Hornady Critical Denfense. It’s by far my favorite model of Glock.

 

[dwpmusic]

G21/G36. 5.7gr Win31/HP38 230Gr Berry's RN. Never a problem.

 

[FlyfishermanMike]

I have, love, and carry a Glock 30. My first Glock, first gun and I'll never part with it. It's still the gun I carry the most.

I've used TG but it's not my favorite in any caliber let alone 45. It's ok for reduced revolver loads. I don't like the small volume charge weights and the small difference between min and max charges. It burns hot, I don't like the recoil impulse and can pressure spike quick. It can be accurate and isn't position sensitive. If I need a fast powder I tend to use Bullseye, Red Dot or WST. WST is my favorite for target/plinking 45. It's clean, economical, the recoil impulse is awesome and I like how it smells! You won't be able to duplicate factory ball with it though. 4.2 gr. behind a 230 Lead gets me 725 fps out of my G30, 755 fps out of my Blackhawk 5.5" and 850 fps out if my 16" carbine. Unique, CFE Pistol and Power Pistol are good choices for standard power loads.

I have a 45 Shield and am still amazed at how well that little gun shoots. I thought it would be a handful but it isn't. I got it mainly as a smaller gun to carry while mountain biking.

 

[sunfish]

T

I was thinking the 30S however it seems there is more recoil with that being lighter than the 30SF or the 30 gen 4 which is is essentially the same as the 30SF with a few enhancements.
Whichever one will be an edc and I will compete with it for practice and to gain competency.

My question now is about powder. I have a 43 & 19/4 and have only used TG to reload my practice and competition rounds due to the deal I got on it, and have a ton left... If TG is a top choice then fine however I don't want to use it just because I have so much if there is better..?
Opinions please...
Thanks in advance from G!

This won't be the help requested BUT please try out a Mod.2 before doing anything ... even though I am a Hickok45 fan and follow his preferences, Glock is no longer one of these.

 

[R3508]

Glock 21. Concealable, shootable, all l like you said...