GlockTalk Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,818 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Here is how the Ohio law reads regarding carrying a firearm in a car.

How do I carry in a motor vehicle?
Ohio requires a valid CHL in order to have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle. If you have a CHL, a loaded firearm must be transported in one of the following ways:

1. In a holster secured on the person.
2. In a closed case, bag, box, or other container that is in plain sight and that has a lid, a cover, or a closing mechanism with a zipper, snap, or buckle, which lid, cover, or closing mechanism must be opened for a person to gain access to the handgun
3. The loaded handgun is securely encased by being stored in a closed glove compartment or center console, or in a case that is locked. A locked case does not need to be in plain sight (an unlocked case does).

I wanted to create a way to carry a handgun in my car and stay in compliance with the law. I was going to use the holster shown to secure my Clock 19.



My plan was to attach the holster to my console on the driver's side so that it was between the console and the front seat cushion. The grip would extend above the console and the seat cushion.

I called my CCW instructor and the local Sheriff's Dept. to ask if I would be in compliance with the law. What would you say the answer was? Make sure you read the wording of the law and understand it. I'll get back to you with the responses from both parties in a few days, but for now, I'm interested in your interpretation.

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
991 Posts
- In a holster secured on the person.

- The loaded handgun is in a closed case, bag, box, or other
container that is in plain sight and that has a lid, a cover, or a closing mechanism with a zipper, snap, or buckle, which lid, cover or closing mechanism must be opened for a person to gain access to the handgun, or

- The loaded handgun is securely encased by being stored in a closed,
glove compartment or console, or in a case that is locked.


That leaves "other container" with a "closing mechanism"....in plain sight.

I don't feel that your holster qualifies as such. I'd like to be wrong. I understand that to be a handy location.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,250 Posts
My thought on the matter is the gun in a holster attached to the console is not being stored as how the law states a loaded handgun has to be stored while loaded in a vehicle.

It would not be in the console or glove box and it would not be in a case, box, bag and everything else that the law says it has to be in. The handgun is not even secured on the person there Mad Max. Just kidding.:supergrin:

I wouldn’t think this would fly but please let us know what you where told. Remember it might be a different story from every LEO you encounter because it does seem to be in a grey area.:dunno:
 

·
"Member"
Joined
·
115 Posts
My thought on the matter is the gun in a holster attached to the console is not being stored as how the law states a loaded handgun has to be stored while loaded in a vehicle.

It would not be in the console or glove box and it would not be in a case, box, bag and everything else that the law says it has to be in. The handgun is not even secured on the person there Mad Max. Just kidding.:supergrin:

I wouldn’t think this would fly but please let us know what you where told. Remember it might be a different story from every LEO you encounter because it does seem to be in a grey area.:dunno:
This?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Ok, CHL is CCW or what? I'm assuming so since handguns are not required to be licensed in Ohio. I recently moved here from Michigan where they are required to be licensed. I had my ccw there but since I took up permanent residency in Ohio I must take a ccw course here, even though its the same thing as my Mich ccw (good until 2012).

I am by no means a hg expert but its hard to follow some talks/threads when they use such varying terms. I read them to gain knowledge, so ....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,818 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Well before I called the Sheriff's Dept. in Lorain County, I was evaluating point #2.
2. In a closed case, bag, box, or other container that is in plain sight and that has a lid, a cover, or a closing mechanism with a zipper, snap, or buckle, which lid, cover, or closing mechanism must be opened for a person to gain access to the handgun.

I already had these "holsters" (or containers) that met the requirements of the law.
Wilderness Safepacker.

Westwood Landings.


Clearly, these are closed containers with a closing mechanism. Then I started looking at option #3.
3. The loaded handgun is securely encased by being stored in a closed glove compartment or center console, or in a case that is locked. A locked case does not need to be in plain sight (an unlocked case does).

My question to the Sheriff's Dept. ( and I spoke to the resident expert on concealed carry) was "Does the holster (or container, if you prefer) qualify because it has a closing mechanism, ie., a thumb break fastener, that must be opened for the gun to be released?" Does engaging the thumb break actually "close" the container? Here is a pic of the other side of the holster showing the thumb break.
http://www.wwlholsters.com/about-holster.asp

He said, that in his opinion, this would be legal, but most local and State officers, really are not familiar with Car Carry laws and they might have a different opinion.

My next step will to be an installation and take pictures and the empty holster to the Sheriff's Dept. for further clarification.

I'll keep you posted about this very grey area and the lack of knowledge of many LEO's and CCW carriers alike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,250 Posts
Well before I called the Sheriff's Dept. in Lorain County, I was evaluating point #2.
2. In a closed case, bag, box, or other container that is in plain sight and that has a lid, a cover, or a closing mechanism with a zipper, snap, or buckle, which lid, cover, or closing mechanism must be opened for a person to gain access to the handgun.

I already had these "holsters" (or containers) that met the requirements of the law.
Wilderness Safepacker.

Westwood Landings.


Clearly, these are closed containers with a closing mechanism. Then I started looking at option #3.
3. The loaded handgun is securely encased by being stored in a closed glove compartment or center console, or in a case that is locked. A locked case does not need to be in plain sight (an unlocked case does).

My question to the Sheriff's Dept. ( and I spoke to the resident expert on concealed carry) was "Does the holster (or container, if you prefer) qualify because it has a closing mechanism, ie., a thumb break fastener, that must be opened for the gun to be released?" Does engaging the thumb break actually "close" the container? Here is a pic of the other side of the holster showing the thumb break.
http://www.wwlholsters.com/about-holster.asp

He said, that in his opinion, this would be legal, but most local and State officers, really are not familiar with Car Carry laws and they might have a different opinion.

My next step will to be an installation and take pictures and the empty holster to the Sheriff's Dept. for further clarification.

I'll keep you posted about this very grey area and the lack of knowledge of many LEO's and CCW carriers alike.
Just out of curiosity, why are you not interested in putting your CCW gun in the glove box or console? The state did change the law for our convenience and it has probably worked out for many Ohioans with a CCW including myself.

I would keep it simple, use the glove box or console. Out of sight is out of mine. Besides your going to kill the resell value on that vehicle by bolting stuff on the console creating ugly holes on the side of it. Not to mention setting yourself up for a date with a judge and paying lawyer fee’s that you could rack up trying to prove something that may not go your way.

Just my .02 cents here, do what is in Black and White and use the future lawyer money to buy more guns for your collection. At least you will have something tangible with your money.:cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,818 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Just out of curiosity, why are you not interested in putting your CCW gun in the glove box or console? The state did change the law for our convenience and it has probably worked out for many Ohioans with a CCW including myself.

I would keep it simple, use the glove box or console. Out of sight is out of mine. Besides your going to kill the resell value on that vehicle by bolting stuff on the console creating ugly holes on the side of it. Not to mention setting yourself up for a date with a judge and paying lawyer fee’s that you could rack up trying to prove something that may not go your way.

Just my .02 cents here, do what is in Black and White and use the future lawyer money to buy more guns for your collection. At least you will have something tangible with your money.:cool:
Well, right now I keep my G21 in a Safepacker in my console. No problem...unless I need it very quickly. My thought was to use industrial strength velco for attachment, so there would be no holes in the console.

I would continue to keep the empty Safepacker in the console, so when I'm at the car wash (for example), I can place the gun in it and have it with me out of the car.

One comment from the Sheriff's office was I might have to surrender my gun to a LEO who was not familiar with the current law, pay the legal fees to defend myself and have it returned to me. This is mostly an exercise to be able to do what is lawful. It's almost amusing that so many of us don't know what is allowed and what is not. At this point, I really don't know what is fully legal, but my intent is to find out and have documentation to prove it.

The story continues...
 

·
Limp Member
Joined
·
1,264 Posts
Personally, I don't believe it complies but If you're gonna' do it . . . so be it. I'd be interested in knowing how it works out for you. By the way, I'm in North Ridgeville.
 

·
Walther
Joined
·
1,198 Posts
One comment from the Sheriff's office was I might have to surrender my gun to a LEO who was not familiar with the current law, pay the legal fees to defend myself and have it returned to me. This is mostly an exercise to be able to do what is lawful.
Seems like an expensive and inconvenient way to go about it, though.

It's almost amusing that so many of us don't know what is allowed and what is not.
Read the law - it's pretty clear. I don't believe that there's so much gray area as you're looking for; it seems more as if you're trying to find a loophole of sorts.

The law uses the word "holster" specifically, as this is a recent change to the law that was added at the urging of CCW licensees in Ohio. A holster is not a case, box, bag, or container - and having a buckle doesn't make it one.

thorn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,250 Posts
Personally, I don't believe it complies but If you're gonna' do it . . . so be it. I'd be interested in knowing how it works out for you. By the way, I'm in North Ridgeville.
I thought you said North Royalton at first. Boy I was way off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,250 Posts
Well, right now I keep my G21 in a Safepacker in my console. No problem...unless I need it very quickly. My thought was to use industrial strength velco for attachment, so there would be no holes in the console.

I would continue to keep the empty Safepacker in the console, so when I'm at the car wash (for example), I can place the gun in it and have it with me out of the car.

One comment from the Sheriff's office was I might have to surrender my gun to a LEO who was not familiar with the current law, pay the legal fees to defend myself and have it returned to me. This is mostly an exercise to be able to do what is lawful. It's almost amusing that so many of us don't know what is allowed and what is not. At this point, I really don't know what is fully legal, but my intent is to find out and have documentation to prove it.

The story continues...
I do understand what you are trying to do but, that is a thin line I would hate to cross. I wish you the best of luck.:wavey:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,818 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Seems like an expensive and inconvenient way to go about it, though.



Read the law - it's pretty clear. I don't believe that there's so much gray area as you're looking for; it seems more as if you're trying to find a loophole of sorts.

The law uses the word "holster" specifically, as this is a recent change to the law that was added at the urging of CCW licensees in Ohio. A holster is not a case, box, bag, or container - and having a buckle doesn't make it one.

thorn
It might be clear to you, but not to many LEO's. The Deputy Sheriff I talked to said that over 90% of LEO's (in his opinion) were not clear on the law. A holster can be anything that can contain and carry a gun. It could be a paper bag with a drawstring attached to your belt. If you don't agree, I understand. I'm looking for a clear cut definition of the law, not an argument. I'm assuming you would like to know, too.

Off to the local PD tomorrow to get their opinion. I have the time and desire to get to the truth!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,818 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top