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Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by TBO, Jan 27, 2012.
I don't see how that requirement doesn't trample all over the 5th amendment. Having to tell an officer that you have a firearms could possibly lead to self-incrimination.
Would you elaborate on that, please.
I have no problem at all informing (which I've never had to do...yet) that I am in possession of a loaded and legally carried firearm.
In fact, even if I'm not carrying (which is very rare) I would notify the officer that I have a CPL but that I'm not currenty armed.
Michigan it is mandatory that you notify an officer that you are carrying and a few people have been charged for failure to "immediately" notify an officer which I believe is simply harrassment and/or abuse of authority.
As HarleyGuy posted, in Michigan it's required by law. I drive in Ohio and also have no problem (if it ever were to come up) telling law enforcement that I'm armed. In Michigan, the Concealed Pistol License (CPL) is linked to the vehicles registered in my name. I currently have three of those. One I drive, the second my wife drives and the third our son drives.
When the officer uses his onboard computer system and runs the plate on any of those vehicles, the system indicates that it is registered to a CPL holder. He then approaches the vehicle knowing that there could be an armed individual in that vehicle. From the following quote, it appears that Ohio has the same system as Michigan.
When my son or my wife produce their drivers license, vehicle registration and certificate of insurance, the officer then knows he is not dealing with a possibly armed CPL holder.
Telling an officer you are armed is a common courtesy and I have been told it makes for a much better interaction. In one instance, a friend was not ticketed for speeding and he was stopped twice in less than an hour (he's a slow learner...) by two different agencies. The officers let him off with a warning and the second one he actually decided to obey.
In Michigan, they already know before they arrive at the driver's side B pillar.
Just my 2 cents....
First of all, don't carry if it's not legal to do so. If you are carrying on a CCW permit, it is a very good idea, (even if it isn't required by law in your state) to tell the officer, "I have a concealed weapons permit and I am carrying a firearm". all the while you keep your hands on the steering wheel. The reason I recommend doing so, is that it is safer for you and the officer to know. If you don't say anything and the officer asks you for your drivers license and in reaching into your back pocket for your wallet, your gun happens to flash, things can get very exciting, very fast. I personally don't want a cop shoving a gun in my ear, and don't think it won't happen. Be safe!
Gperfection said it perfectly. This is the best way to handle any interaction with LE and is exactly as I instruct it. The officers that are in my classes also agree, never have I had one say he wanted to see things go down diff. These guys are family men like most of us, good people doing their job and trying to keep YOU and your family safe. Show some respect and common sense.
I believe Ohio's law is valid. It is the AZ law that bothers me. You don't have to inform but if ask you have to give them an answer. You can't remain silent. If you don't give a valid answer you are breaking their law.
13-3102. Misconduct Involving Weapons; Defenses; Classification; Definitions
1. Carrying a deadly weapon except a pocket knife concealed on his person or within his immediate control in or on a means of transportation:
(b) When contacted by a law enforcement officer and failing to accurately answer the officer if the officer asks whether the person is carrying a concealed deadly weapon; or…
With Wisconsin's (kinda) new CCW Law you are required to inform an LEO if you are carrying concealed only if the LEO asks while offically perfoming his LEO duties. If you are CCW you need to provide a valid CCW License or Permit along with form of WI Picture ID. You are not required by law to volunteer any info unless asked. I was recently stopped for speeding and was never asked so I did not tell... I was given a warning and told to have a nice day... The fact that I was carrying holstered on my right hip w/ jacket covering my fiream was never even discussed...
Open carry is also legal in WI and most current CCW License holder open carried before WI passed it's CCW law, so for most, we still kinda open carry on the hip with worrying if a jacket or sweater "accidently" covers our firearms. Some refer to it as "Casual Carry"...
I have one and will comply with the law. But, why do I have to tell the officer? For years, the training I have received was,' treat them all like they have one'. This was years before the CCW thing. Yet, somehow, officers have something to fear from law abiding citizens. When this was being fought for in Ohio, the head of the Ohio State Highway Patrol stated that CCW means more dead troopers. How stupid is that! Being required to tell officers and so on means more harassment for the citizen. Some with CCW have been face down on the asphalt, cuffed, while the officer verifies the permit. This is so wrong. It is the attitude of "we don't like others(non cops) in our concealed carry club" that breeds harassment. Ohio is hoping to do away with the requirement to notify.
being required to notify an office you're LEGALLY carrying is irrelevant. Would you like me to also let him know my height/weight right when I greet him also?
Now if you're carrying illegally, then it turns into a 5th amendment violation.
If you're legally carrying, why would the officer need to know you're carrying? It's not like you're going to do anything illegal with it obviously.
If you're illegally carrying, why would you notify the officer of such? If you're already breaking one law, why not break another?
Just more job justification by a lazy tax wasting lawmaker. What do the actual Ohio peace officers say about the CCW notification? I would believe they would be all for notification (the ones I know are).
All of your CCW info comes back on the plate run (if you are actually the owner of the car) and if a car is legally licensed in Ohio. If it is a borrowed car, just be courteous and tell the officer (while keeping your hands on the wheel) and show your CCW permit when permitted or instructed by the officer.
No matter how you slice it, I am all about police officer safety in a crappy city (i.e. Cincinnati) and if telling them offers a better measure of safety while doing their job. Good!
Note: I have had three CCW events (two dog attacks, and a road rage) here in Cincinnati and all were very professionally conducted by the police/sheriff departments.
Out of curiousity, was your wallet on the same side as your gun? If so, had the officer not just given you a warning and wanted to see you drivers license, would it have been possible for the officer to see your holstered gun? That's when it can get exciting for you, because the officer was not aware of you CCW permit.
Have to or not... whatever. If you don't, don't come out whining when you get shot.
Law or not, if I were to have an interaction with the police I would inform them I was legally armed and make sure my hands are in plain view and in a safe place.
In other words, I'd make damn sure if the officer shoots me it's because he's a tool and not me.
During a traffic stop, the last thing you want to hear from the officer's partner that is securing the passenger side of the vehicle is...
It might be the very last thing you hear....
So, you are the cop, are you telling me that during a traffic stop, the person you pulled over, didn't tell you he/she had a CCW permit and was carrying, then during that stop you see a gun, you wouldn't draw down on the occupant of the car? Sure you treat everyone as if they are armed, but that doesn't mean you draw your sidearm on every traffic stop. I'm just saying that, if I pulled you over and you told me of your legal CCW, I would be glad you did and you might be too. It may, also get you out of a ticket possibly, because the officer may not want to deal with you reaching for things in the car.
Ponder this, just because it's your right, doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do!
Nobody likes surprises. It's not Christmas and it's not your birthday...
I don't think it should be a legal requirement. But if you're carrying and get pulled over it's a good idea to tell the officer but it should be your choice.
The main reason to get rid of the "must inform" requirement is to avoid situations like the Canton one last year.
I guess I must be lucky, every time I've been pulled over since I obtained my CCW I have informed the officer that I have a CCW and that I have my pistol on me. The whole time mind you my hands are firmly grasping the steering wheel. I also always roll all my tinted windows down and if it's dark out I will turn my dome light on so the officer can clearly see inside my truck. (like I said I have my windows tinted dark.)
But any ways I have never had any issues and I actually have gotten out of a few. All of the cops were very professional.
every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future.