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579 Posts
I'll offer what I believe to be true, though I'm no expert.
The KTM's are a linkless rear suspension design. Historically, the linkage used by the Jap bikes has offered better progressive rate compression. As of 2005 and especially 2006, the KTM's are described as being "as good as" the Jap bikes. Just like the rear shock, the same applies to the forks... the Japs have the better reputation.
FWIW, a better rider will out ride a worse rider on any comparable bike. My two toughest competitor buddies both ride 2001 KTM 300 MXCs... and those shouldn't be able to hold a candle to my 2005 KX250. The fact is that the whole linkage/no-linkage controversy is way overrated.
Arguing which bike has better stock suspension is like arguing which stock Nascar is the fastest. Everyone who can ride worth a damn WILL HAVE THEIR SUSPENSION REVALVED AND RESPRUNG SPECIFICALLY FOR THEIR NEEDS. Even most novice "C" class riders have a custom suspension setup.
For instance, my suspension is ACME brand. It's been revalved for a very plush initial stroke and susbequently becomes very progressive and stiff toward the end of the stroke. It's also been respring with a higher spring rate, to hold a 190lb rider (I weigh 185 + gear). Unlike a stock KX250 my bike won't deflect on the high speed chop and square edge rocks that I see on the trails... Motocross bikes don't deal with this... they have stiffer initial travel to help with the "big air" landings.
All my buddies have custom tailored suspension.
After the necessary upgrades, arguing stock suspension is a moot point... 'cause it ain't near stock anymore.
Other points about linkless suspension:
1. KTM riders run bucu more chain slack than Jap riders. Since the lack of linkage changes the distance from countershaft to rear sprocket more as the rear shock compresses. If they don't run enough slack, the rear hub or engine case may break.
2. Lack of linkage on KTMs means less bearings and linkage to wear out. Removal and installation of the rear shock is easier without the linkage.
Suspension work is by far the number one modification most people should make to a stock bike... and it's not cheap.
As far as the 450's are concerned, I dunno. The Honda's and Yams use an aluminum frame... which is pretty cool. The KTM doesn't.
The KTM's have vastly different ergonomics than the Jap bikes. You feel as if you're sitting higher and are less stable on a KTM. Once you acquire a taste for a particular style (KTM or Jap) the other will feel way different.
The KTM4-stroke trail bikes have valve adjuster screws, so the frequent valve adjustments are easy. The Jap bikes all have shim under bucket valves, with are more of a PITA to adjust. IIRC the KTM motocross bikes have shim under bucket valves too.
The KTM engines are powerful. My buddies 300's would run stride for stride with my old 2001 CR500 (yes a CR500) at the dunes and in the straights.
the odds and ends: The KTM's come with nice nickel plated pipes, hydraulic clutches, and several other nice things you don't get on a Jap bike.
The Jap bikes are generally cheaper.
If I were looking for a trail bike, I'd likely choose a KTM. They are highly dominant off road. I was on the path a few months ago, but got an opportunity to buy a factory race bike and chose a latter.
If I were looking for a motocross bike, I'd steer very clear of the KTMs. The Jap bikes dominate motocross.
If I just wanted a badass all 'round bike... and nothing else...
I'd pick the KTM 300 XC: http://www.ama-cycle.org/news/2005/KTMxc/XC.asp
The 2-stroke that grunts like a 450 down low and pulls like an open class 2-stroke on top... KTM 300!
The KTM's are a linkless rear suspension design. Historically, the linkage used by the Jap bikes has offered better progressive rate compression. As of 2005 and especially 2006, the KTM's are described as being "as good as" the Jap bikes. Just like the rear shock, the same applies to the forks... the Japs have the better reputation.
FWIW, a better rider will out ride a worse rider on any comparable bike. My two toughest competitor buddies both ride 2001 KTM 300 MXCs... and those shouldn't be able to hold a candle to my 2005 KX250. The fact is that the whole linkage/no-linkage controversy is way overrated.
Arguing which bike has better stock suspension is like arguing which stock Nascar is the fastest. Everyone who can ride worth a damn WILL HAVE THEIR SUSPENSION REVALVED AND RESPRUNG SPECIFICALLY FOR THEIR NEEDS. Even most novice "C" class riders have a custom suspension setup.
For instance, my suspension is ACME brand. It's been revalved for a very plush initial stroke and susbequently becomes very progressive and stiff toward the end of the stroke. It's also been respring with a higher spring rate, to hold a 190lb rider (I weigh 185 + gear). Unlike a stock KX250 my bike won't deflect on the high speed chop and square edge rocks that I see on the trails... Motocross bikes don't deal with this... they have stiffer initial travel to help with the "big air" landings.
All my buddies have custom tailored suspension.
After the necessary upgrades, arguing stock suspension is a moot point... 'cause it ain't near stock anymore.
Other points about linkless suspension:
1. KTM riders run bucu more chain slack than Jap riders. Since the lack of linkage changes the distance from countershaft to rear sprocket more as the rear shock compresses. If they don't run enough slack, the rear hub or engine case may break.
2. Lack of linkage on KTMs means less bearings and linkage to wear out. Removal and installation of the rear shock is easier without the linkage.
Suspension work is by far the number one modification most people should make to a stock bike... and it's not cheap.
As far as the 450's are concerned, I dunno. The Honda's and Yams use an aluminum frame... which is pretty cool. The KTM doesn't.
The KTM's have vastly different ergonomics than the Jap bikes. You feel as if you're sitting higher and are less stable on a KTM. Once you acquire a taste for a particular style (KTM or Jap) the other will feel way different.
The KTM4-stroke trail bikes have valve adjuster screws, so the frequent valve adjustments are easy. The Jap bikes all have shim under bucket valves, with are more of a PITA to adjust. IIRC the KTM motocross bikes have shim under bucket valves too.
The KTM engines are powerful. My buddies 300's would run stride for stride with my old 2001 CR500 (yes a CR500) at the dunes and in the straights.
the odds and ends: The KTM's come with nice nickel plated pipes, hydraulic clutches, and several other nice things you don't get on a Jap bike.
The Jap bikes are generally cheaper.
If I were looking for a trail bike, I'd likely choose a KTM. They are highly dominant off road. I was on the path a few months ago, but got an opportunity to buy a factory race bike and chose a latter.
If I were looking for a motocross bike, I'd steer very clear of the KTMs. The Jap bikes dominate motocross.
If I just wanted a badass all 'round bike... and nothing else...
I'd pick the KTM 300 XC: http://www.ama-cycle.org/news/2005/KTMxc/XC.asp
The 2-stroke that grunts like a 450 down low and pulls like an open class 2-stroke on top... KTM 300!