October challenge

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by pgg00, Oct 1, 2020.

  1. pgg00

    pgg00

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    going along with my usual theme of training drills.

    Target an 8" paper plate. 7 yards. Start with some type of long gun that you would use for protection. From the low ready, 2 shots to the plate then transition to a holstered handgun and 2 shots on the plate.

    Something that I have my guys do. All shots on target and record times. If you really want fun try it with a lever action and a single action revolver :)
     
  2. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    Very cool! Low round count but endless possibilities! What is a typical time that you see / require for your guys?
     

  3. pgg00

    pgg00

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    Usually under 5 seconds
     
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  4. Schrag4

    Schrag4

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    Are AR pistols ok for the long gun? Pistol caliber? It shouldn’t offer any advantage, I recon. My AR9 is blowback operated so recoil is nearly in line with DI 223.
     
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  5. pgg00

    pgg00

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    I don't care. The take away from this exercise is a smooth and fast transition
     
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  6. jr24

    jr24

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    Cool drill, I was just doing much the same with my AR and Glock last range trip as they left some of the 3 gun targets out set up for 20 yard rifle transitioning to 7 yard pistol and I had just happened to have my AR out (went back to the carry handle after the second range trip with dead batteries).
     
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  7. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    I had a lot of fun with this.

    I don’t shoot ARs much at all and usually only shoot Glocks for these monthly challenges.

    So I picked a suppressed 300 blk AR Pistol (PSA cheapy special) shooting subsonic for the “rifle” and an MR920 (like a G19) with a DPP for the pistol. Both stock guns, unmodified.

    BAA755FE-BC13-4C11-BDB4-6D0787FD79AB.jpeg



    Splits were 0.20 which is standard for “normal” guns and the transition from rifle to pistol was 1.29s.

    I think with racey type guns or a handgun I practiced more with for index, I could probably get under 2 seconds. With close misses, I was down around 2.11s with this setup. To make sure hits were in, I was reliably in the 2.3-2.4s range.

    Thanks for a fun challenge!
     
  8. pgg00

    pgg00

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    Out of curiosity. What holster are you using? We are mandated triple retention holsters at work
     
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  9. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    I used a Kydex bladetech. I don’t own any Level 3 retention holsters, but I do own some Safariland Level 2 ones.

    Would it be safe to assume that if you were going into this kind of conflict you’d have the thumb strap off already, or is that not what’d happen?

    I can do it with a stock G34 with irons from a Level 2 Safariland (thumb break lever, no strap) if that’s a reasonable police setup.
     
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  10. pgg00

    pgg00

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    We generally leave all retention devices in place. We train to disable them all while drawing so i would think if one was already disabled it could disrupt the muscle memory of that draw stroke.

    I'm curious if retention devices would show any significant time difference with you. (Knowing hour skill though it might at .001 second)
     
  11. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    I only came here to see the videos of single point sling guys getting whacked in the nuts.
     
  12. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    My sense is that a Level 2 might add 0.1-0.2 tenths and a Level 3 might add an additional 0.1-2 if a flip up thumb retention.

    What do you think of this? I added Velcro straps with a thumb snap off of a different holster to my existing Level 2.

    Would that be a reasonable surrogate? I think the snap will be slower than a flip, but we shall see by how much!

    5EFBC9F7-A74A-46B2-86F8-8E5B0173DDCD.jpeg 0332CAEC-2CC2-4AEE-9F9E-D8B4F03632C5.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
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  13. pgg00

    pgg00

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    I'm curious. Let's see what it does. I should send you one of my old holsters :rofl:
     
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  14. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    Tried it again today with a real rifle caliber (223) instead of subsonic blackout. Also a DASA P01 for the handgun.

    6FC5C2D2-69ED-4C48-A958-6632BD0FABAF.jpeg



    Both setups yielded essentially the same times.

    E406C93B-B93A-4E52-B303-FB89B7896DD6.jpeg



    At 3 yards, this is about as fast as I can go.



    8A212DBE-E180-40D2-A93E-0ADF4A8A1AF4.jpeg
     
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  15. pgg00

    pgg00

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  16. Schrag4

    Schrag4

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    I tried this, today. My first attempt was good, at 4.02s. I tried about 5 more times, and finally quit with a good run at 3.15s. I've never tried anything like this before (transitioning from a long gun to a pistol), it was fun!

    Guns used were an AR9 pistol on a single-point sling, and a Ruger 9e from a cheap Fobus holster. And no, I didn't hit myself in the nuts, I swung the AR to the side.

    final_attempt.jpg guns_used.jpg
     
  17. jr24

    jr24

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    3.94 was my best. I was fighting a bit with my timer today with the wind and the software update (not a fan so far, using Splits) but that's what I managed. Couldn't get a handle on the splits because the rifle shots were drowning out the pistol shots and I didn't have time to mess with the echo and mic settings once other folks showed up at the range.

    S&W M&P 15 and a Glock 19, IWB under a sweatshirt. Transition definitely slowed me a bit getting under the shirt, with a sling, to my IWB, but I figured if I ever actually had to do this "real life" I'd be using that same carbine and holster set up almost certainly.

    IMG_20201005_100845476_HDR.jpg
     
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  18. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    It’d be interesting to see it again from an OWB holster. I figure if I’m ever grabbing a rifle, I’m also grabbing an OWB holster and larger handgun than what I normally carry.

    I’m envisioning a “I’m gonna git you sucka” movie scenario where you transition to smaller and smaller guns:

    Rifle to OWB full size pistol to IWB subcompact pistol to pocket carry j frame to thunderwear carried NAA Mini. :D
     
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  19. jr24

    jr24

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    That is true, in that situation it would probably be a Glock 21 OWB, but I actually don't have any good OWB holsters for my Glocks. I have a SERPA but I don't often use it and it'd probably slow me down.

    My thought is I've always got my CCW on me and if I needed to I'd grab the rifle and a few mags from the safe (which fit nicely in the back pocket of jeans) in a hurry. In all reality I should have grabbed my AK, as in a real emergency situation my wife would have the AR and I'd grab the AK (until I get enough supplies together to lay in a good supply of ammo for my 6.5 Grendel).

    I just don't see having to hear up in a plate carrier (I don't own) and "gun up" in my rural boring life, so I don't have the gear for it. Assuming the ammo supply evens off next year I had been thinking of trying 3 gun, so I'll have to look at some new gear then.

    All that said, OWB with no garment my draw has, in the past, been about .4 or so faster than under the shirt.

    Also I'm sure the rifle would have been faster if I had a dot or EOTEC on it, but my EOTEC just ate another battery and I have had a string of electronics failing at the range over the past few months, so I've gone no batteries on optics for now. I had a nice 1-4 tactical scope on the rifle, but I had to scavange the rings to put a Strike Eagle on my 6.5 Grendel and I haven't gotten around to replacing those rings yet, and the carry handle has actually been shooting nicely for me the last few trips, was crushing clays at 50 yards quickly and easily last week so might just leave it. As I said, once I get enough ammo stocked (which this summer is not the time for it!!) and a bunch more mags, my "go to" rifle is gonna be my Grendel.
     
  20. pgg00

    pgg00

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    Did it with my work rifle and pistol out of my duty holster.

    20201006_112624.jpg 20201006_113002.jpg 20201006_113511.jpg
     
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