Glock Forum - GlockTalk banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
EnemyOfTheState
Joined
·
6,686 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am a politics junkie, and have done a lot of research on various issues I am concerned about, such as public education, taxes, foreign policy, and governmental budgeting. I am not just interested in identifying problems, I am interested in working out solutions. One issue which I am not very knowledgable about, but interested in, is the criminal justice system. There are plenty of stories in the news (and pop-culture) about prison overcrowding, the 'revolving door,' horrific crimes committed by recidivists, and lawyers who care about winning more than the truth -these issues are often sensationalized and soon forgotten. Everyone seems to be sure the system has problems, but they're not so sure about the solutions.

I have 2 questions I'd like to ask of you LEOs, since most of you probably have first-hand experience. Answer one or both.

1) What are the problems with the criminal justice 'system'? I know this varies from one place to another, so just answer for your area- what you've seen.

2) What would fix these problems?/ If you were completely in charge, what changes would you implement?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
808 Posts
The vast majority of the crime committed in my area is done by illegal aliens and/or products of illegal aliens. It's hard to keep track of who these people are because they have no form of identification. If you arrest an illegal alien, chances are they will be released from jail before their livescan fingerprint results come back, these prints often times reveal wants/warrants and/or whether or not the individual had told you the truth regarding their identity.

Once you have a confirmed illegal immigrant in custody, it is nearly impossible to obtain a ICE hold or "detainer." The local ICE guys only work 9-5 Monday-Friday and are reluctant to issue these detainers unless the individual has committed one of a very few specific crimes.

If you are actually able to obtain an ICE hold/detainer, the illegal alien will then be allowed a trial. Entities such as the ACLU will provide him/her with an attorney who will delay the deportation process for months or years. In the mean time, the illegal alien will disappear into the ever growing crowd of his fellow countrymen and continue committing crime.

After all that, if the illegal alien is finally deported, he/she will just come right back and do it all over again.

Ways to fix it?

Secure the border so they can't make it back in.

Fork out the cash to put more ICE agents in local areas to assist municipal police departments

and/or

Fork out the cash to train local cops as ICE agents (I know our county agency has done this) so we can obtain our own detainers.

Fix the policies so these guys don't get to go to court and the deportation process is more efficient.
 

·
Watcher.
Joined
·
41,002 Posts
I gotta see this.'08. :popcorn:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,652 Posts
Really I'd say the number one problem is lack of prosecution for the crimes people are arrested/charged on. Our prosecutors are so overloaded, they offer the plea deals to help clear their docket, then the judge won't give them active jail time, and instead will suspend their sentence. So they walk away with no real enforcement against them. The criminal will go commit another crime while on probation and they won't revoke the probation and instead will have another suspended sentence.

So solutions... increase the number of judges, prosecutors, courtrooms, and jail space. Then actually sentence people to jail for committing crimes.
 

·
EnemyOfTheState
Joined
·
6,686 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Really I'd say the number one problem is lack of prosecution for the crimes people are arrested/charged on. Our prosecutors are so overloaded, they offer the plea deals to help clear their docket, then the judge won't give them active jail time, and instead will suspend their sentence. So they walk away with no real enforcement against them. The criminal will go commit another crime while on probation and they won't revoke the probation and instead will have another suspended sentence.

So solutions... increase the number of judges, prosecutors, courtrooms, and jail space. Then actually sentence people to jail for committing crimes.
Overload- that's a valid point. I wasn't aware that it was that bad; this is the sort of thing I'm looking for.

Do you think it would be good idea to make some lesser crimes not worthy of jail time in order to free up the system a bit? You know, citations/fines/community service for non-violent offenses or something like that, or is that already done enough? Do you think the lack of prosecution exacerbates the problem? When the 'punishment' is so tame, it doesn't serve as a deterrent and criminals have no disincentive to continue a life of crime, thus turning the system into a 'vicious cycle' of non-punishment and re-offense?

I have never been in LE or been a criminal, so I really don't know much about this. I'm really trying to get a first-hand perspective.
 

·
I need AMMO!
Joined
·
2,521 Posts
Killing a few thousand for simply being thugs would be a good start.
 

·
IWannaBeSedated
Joined
·
11,448 Posts
1) What are the problems with the criminal justice 'system'? I know this varies from one place to another, so just answer for your area- what you've seen.

The state legislature needs to prioritize. We don't live in a world with endless resources where we can hire a sea of prosecutors, judges, cops, probation officers, parole officers, and open a chain of jails and prisons. In order to effect real change, you have to prioritize criminal behavior in terms of harm against society. People who cause real physical harm need to go to prison forever, followed by drug trafficking and serious property crimes (robberies and residential burglaries). In my jurisdiction, we'll rock a defendant for a retail theft but they walk away on probation for Agg Batt to a Pregnant Woman.

2) What would fix these problems?/ If you were completely in charge, what changes would you implement?

Prison terms for the most serious felonies would be LONG in my world.... life or close to it. Reality is that while some criminals can be rehabilitated, these aren't generally the people committing really serious crime. In these cases, we need to face facts and incapacitate these ******bags until they die in prison (which also helps prohibit them from procreating and perpetuating the cycle). By all means, give the lower level drug crimes (and property crimes where drugs is a nexus) a shot at rehab but in the end, if they screw it up, let them up and throw away the key.

People operate under the assumption that deterrence doesn't work. My counter argument is that it's never really been tried to the fullest extent of our ability. And even if it doesn't, incapacitation is a 100% sure fire way to keep people from re-offending.

Oh, and expanding the use of the death penalty couldn't hurt either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,064 Posts
Prison in and of itself is no longer a deterrent for serious criminals, especially recidivists. It's a career for many of them, in fact.

Bring hard labor back, and make them pay their way, plus court costs and restitution, through back breaking, hard work. And take away their stinking TV and weight piles. And give COs the teeth they need to do their job, instead of issuing them sheet music for the song Kum Bah Yah.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,064 Posts
1) What are the problems with the criminal justice 'system'? I know this varies from one place to another, so just answer for your area- what you've seen.

The state legislature needs to prioritize. We don't live in a world with endless resources where we can hire a sea of prosecutors, judges, cops, probation officers, parole officers, and open a chain of jails and prisons. In order to effect real change, you have to prioritize criminal behavior in terms of harm against society. People who cause real physical harm need to go to prison forever, followed by drug trafficking and serious property crimes (robberies and residential burglaries). In my jurisdiction, we'll rock a defendant for a retail theft but they walk away on probation for Agg Batt to a Pregnant Woman.

2) What would fix these problems?/ If you were completely in charge, what changes would you implement?

Prison terms for the most serious felonies would be LONG in my world.... life or close to it. Reality is that while some criminals can be rehabilitated, these aren't generally the people committing really serious crime. In these cases, we need to face facts and incapacitate these ******bags until they die in prison (which also helps prohibit them from procreating and perpetuating the cycle). By all means, give the lower level drug crimes (and property crimes where drugs is a nexus) a shot at rehab but in the end, if they screw it up, let them up and throw away the key.

People operate under the assumption that deterrence doesn't work. My counter argument is that it's never really been tried to the fullest extent of our ability. And even if it doesn't, incapacitation is a 100% sure fire way to keep people from re-offending.

Oh, and expanding the use of the death penalty couldn't hurt either.
And lessening the COST of applying the death penalty. At this point, it is cheaper to house them for life than to execute them.

Oh, and....

BRING BACK OLD SPARKY.

I miss Old Sparky........
 

·
you savvy?
Joined
·
23,473 Posts
ive never seen a criminal justice system work, but ive seen plenty of the criminal legal system let them slide out easy....
 

·
*
Joined
·
38,473 Posts
Problems with the CJ system? It's flooded with liberals. Let real cops and judges run it for a few weeks, crime, zero.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89,126 Posts
Prison in and of itself is no longer a deterrent for serious criminals, especially recidivists. It's a career for many of them, in fact.

Bring hard labor back, and make them pay their way, plus court costs and restitution, through back breaking, hard work. And take away their stinking TV and weight piles. And give COs the teeth they need to do their job, instead of issuing them sheet music for the song Kum Bah Yah.
I'd like to build upon this. The problem is actually Western Civilization wide. The West adopted secular humanism as a basis for moral judgment rather than the Judeo-Christian ethic. Crime became social justice. Evil became a reaction to "oppression". All men became good, therefore crime must be caused by outside influences- i.e. society.

A simple return to recognizing evil for what it is, physical punishment and hard labor for petty crimes, the death penalty for capital crimes, and the right to defend private property with deadly force would go a long way towards fixing the nation. The alternative of doing nothing will continue the national slide down the rat hole.


.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,647 Posts
I'm not a LEO. But during a conversation with my NYS Assemblyman (a former NYS trooper), he told me the average sentence in NY for homicide is about eight years. The average sentence for sexually molesting a child is about 2.5 years. Makes me shudder to think.

Now I'm all about reducing taxes. But I would be more than happy to pay a prison tax to ensure enough space for lengthy sentences. Everyday our brave LEO put their lives on the line for our safety and the perp is released without serving appropriate time. Makes me sick everytime I hear about a LEO injured or killed and see the perp has a rap sheet as long as my leg.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,647 Posts
I'd like to build upon this. The problem is actually Western Civilization wide. The West adopted secular humanism as a basis for moral judgment rather than the Judeo-Christian ethic. Crime became social justice. Evil became a reaction to "oppression". All men became good, therefore crime must be caused by outside influences- i.e. society.

A simple return to recognizing evil for what it is, physical punishment and hard labor for petty crimes, the death penalty for capital crimes, and the right to defend private property with deadly force would go a long way to fixing the nation. The alternative of doing nothing will continue the national slide down the rat hole.


.
Don... very well stated.
 

·
Jagenden Übel
Joined
·
2,138 Posts
I'd like to build upon this. The problem is actually Western Civilization wide. The West adopted secular humanism as a basis for moral judgment rather than the Judeo-Christian ethic. Crime became social justice. Evil became a reaction to "oppression". All men became good, therefore crime must be caused by outside influences- i.e. society.

A simple return to recognizing evil for what it is, physical punishment and hard labor for petty crimes, the death penalty for capital crimes, and the right to defend private property with deadly force would go a long way towards fixing the nation. The alternative of doing nothing will continue the national slide down the rat hole.
.
Post of the Year, 2010 finalist. :perfect10::patriot:
Killing a few thousand for simply being thugs would be a good start.
This also works just fine for me, too. Make it pay-per-view to raise money for more prisons.
 

·
Crazy CO
Joined
·
18,146 Posts
I'd like to build upon this. The problem is actually Western Civilization wide. The West adopted secular humanism as a basis for moral judgment rather than the Judeo-Christian ethic. Crime became social justice. Evil became a reaction to "oppression". All men became good, therefore crime must be caused by outside influences- i.e. society.

A simple return to recognizing evil for what it is, physical punishment and hard labor for petty crimes, the death penalty for capital crimes, and the right to defend private property with deadly force would go a long way towards fixing the nation. The alternative of doing nothing will continue the national slide down the rat hole.


.
Most definitely. :agree:
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top