Obligation to present Identification

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by Just_plinking, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. Just_plinking

    Just_plinking

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    I'm not trying to bait any arguments, I just have a simple question I couldn't find the answer to.

    If a person were to be pulled over for speeding, does a passenger in the car have any legal obligation to present their drivers license?

    Disclaimer:

    This question is not the result of any personal experience or altercation.

    edit: the state is Georgia if that matters.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2012
  2. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO Gold Member

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    Have you looked in Georgia state law on the subject?
     

  3. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    In AZ, the answer is "probably not". This is *not* the same as the passenger having to identify himself---i.e., provide his truthfull name. I'll bet dollars to donuts that's true in GA, too. He's not engaged in any licensed activity, so the state has no claim on his license. And no state in the union requires someone to carry, much less to present ID on a routine basis like that.
     
  4. scottydl

    scottydl

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  5. collim1

    collim1

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    Normal traffic stop, say driver was speeding, the answer is no. The officer can request the passenger's license, but he does not have to comply.

    Now, if the vehicle was reported being involved in a crime then yes. If the officer is stopping the vehicle because he can articulate that it was involved in suspicious activity then yes. If the vehicle smells like marijuana, or if contraband is found in the vehicle then yes.

    In my state the passenger can be issued a citation for not wearing his seatbelt, so in that case yes as well.

    I dont often ask for passengers ID on a routine traffic violation stop, but I will if something seems hinky about him. Only 1 in 500 times has the passenger refused to give the ID, even when they ended up having warrants.
     
  6. Just_plinking

    Just_plinking

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    Thanks a lot for answering my question. Just like everyone, I thought I knew, but I realized I could be wrong.
     
  7. scottydl

    scottydl

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    Case law constantly changes on these kinds of issues too, so there is rarely a stock answer that will stand forevermore.

    For awhile in Illinois (from maybe '03-'05?), a police officer was not allowed to even speak to a driver during the stop about anything except the traffic infraction. Talk about cutting us off at the knees! Luckily that was overturned after a couple years.

    Cases like Arizona v. Gant (related to vehicle searches) come along every so often and change traffic stop procedures for us in other ways as well.
     
  8. Ohio Cop

    Ohio Cop

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    As a matter of protocol here, I ID every adult in the vehicle.

    Because passengers present a risk to officer safety equal to the risk presented by the driver, an officer may ask for identification from passengers and run background checks on them as well. - United States v. Rice, 483 F.3d 1079 (10th Cir. 2007)


    I've picked up quite a few warrants from passengers of vehicles.
     
  9. ateamer

    ateamer NRA4EVR

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    Short answer, it depends. Long answer, yes, but...
     
  10. GRIMLET

    GRIMLET Deceased

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    Wasn't there something in the Patriot Act which allows an officer to require identification?
     
  11. DaBigBR

    DaBigBR No Infidels!

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    That requires a person to carry a physical identification card? That requires a person to identify themselves to an officer? Even if that were the case, what recourse or "authority" would it give you average beat cop if a person refused?
     
  12. RenegadeGlocker

    RenegadeGlocker SuperOwner

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    Depends yupon what state you are in:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes
     
  13. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    Negative. You've confused "stop and identify" with "present ID".

    A number of states have laws which require you to identify yourself when lawfully detained. None whatsoever have laws requiring you to present ID when not engaged in some licensed activity. The .gov can not require you to obtain an ID card; how then can they require you to present one?

    This is one of those areas where precise wording matters. The OP asked about a non-operator's "legal obligation to present their drivers license". As I said, he doesn't even have a legal obligation to possess a driver's license.
     
  14. RenegadeGlocker

    RenegadeGlocker SuperOwner

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    Correct, I answered based on [generic] thread Title.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  15. GRIMLET

    GRIMLET Deceased

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    Not an id card but identify themselves. I can't pull it up but it seems I have heard this before. I could be wrong, very wrong. Any members well versed on the Patriot Act?
     
  16. DaBigBR

    DaBigBR No Infidels!

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    I guess my point remains...IF such a thing is required and "you", as a local police officer, demand that a person and they identify themselves and they refuse, what legal recourse does such a provision give you? Absent an applicable local or state statute (which is not what we're talking about here), how do I write a "Patriot Act" charge? (somewhat tongue in cheek there)
     
  17. GRIMLET

    GRIMLET Deceased

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    No harm. I'm not sure. Its one of those things I remember after 9-11.
    If it was in there, I would have to see how it was written.

    Ok ok ok. Now I have to do some research and try to find it.
    IF and only IF it were there, a person who refused would be in disorderly conduct, failure to obey a lawful order. At least in my state. IF and only IF I can find it. Give me time. Or please, someone knowing of the Patriot Act confirm or correct me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  18. GRIMLET

    GRIMLET Deceased

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    Ok, so far, I am at a loss to my memory. Hiibel vs Nevada and the banking id rules in the Patriot Act are all I can find. Neither do my memory justice.
    Until I can quote a statute by number, please excuse me. Thanks.
     
  19. whatsupglock

    whatsupglock

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    In Ohio, an officer can ask anyone at any time to produce identification. It does not have to be a driver's license. If the person fails to provide or refuses to provide identification they may be retained/detained until positive identification is made. No PC is needed for an I.D. check.
     
  20. S&WM&PAR15T&G34

    S&WM&PAR15T&G34

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    Sounds a lot like Nazi Germany " Papers Please "