NY: Non self defense action by a CCP holder.

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Gallium, Mar 11, 2010.

  1. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    You know the saying...where there's smoke...there's an idiot. :faint:





     
  2. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Maybe he was trying stop what he believed was a murderous rampage in progress.

    Maybe a lawyer can work that angle, and then what he did would be legal.

    I know, better idea would have been to call the cops. Maybe he did that, too. But had to keep people from getting murdered as shots rang out all around him.
     

  3. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...fire_chief__bravest_busted_in_gun_threat.html

    Long Island fire chief, NYC firefighter busted in gun threat
    By Jonathan Lemire
    DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
    Wednesday, March 10th 2010, 4:00 AM

    A Long Island town's fire chief and a New York City firefighter were arrested Tuesday for brandishing guns while threatening a pedestrian, officials said.

    Michael Charles, the Hempstead fire chief, held a handgun on his hip while Brian Schuck, an eight-year-FDNY veteran, toted a shotgun when they harassed a man walking down a Hempstead street Sunday afternoon, Nassau County police said.

    Charles and Schuck, who were in an official Hempstead Fire Department SUV, detained the man for a few minutes before letting him flee.

    It was not clear why they targeted that victim, police said.

    Schuck - who was also wanted on an outstanding warrant for assault - and Charles surrendered to authorities Tuesday.

    A third suspect was still being sought, police said.

    Schuck, who works at Ladder 111 in Brooklyn, was immediately suspended without pay, FDNY officials said.

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...avest_busted_in_gun_threat.html#ixzz0htBrSvnA
     
  4. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    Is there a difference between a licensed weapon and a license to carry? In other words, can you own licensed weapons and not have a carry license?
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  5. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    Yes Russ. Paradoxically, many munis ignore state law (and MOST make it grounds for revocation of permit) and issue

    - premise
    - target/range
    - employment
    - special
    - premise/business
    - unrestricted

    It would be completely unheard of for any LE who separated from his agency on good or fair terms to have anything less than an unrestricted permit.

    'Drew
     
  6. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    That might be misleading.

    Most of the NYS permits are "carry concealed."

    Restrictions do not change the law. A permit to carry allows you to legally carry, even if the restrictions say "only target/hunting".

    I am not a lawyer, but I believe the restrictions are only administrative in nature, and could cause you to lose your permit. But violating them would not negate that fact that you have a permit to "carry concealed".
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  7. mesteve2

    mesteve2

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    A place not to be!
     
  8. thegriz18

    thegriz18 Paper Killer

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    You are 100% correct.
     
  9. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    So, in this case it is possible that Charles did not have a carry permit.

    Granting for the moment he could have a carry permit, would you agree Charles is atypical when we talk about the average person with a carry permit in NY? He is retired NYPD. Might his actions reflect more his training and experiences as a cop kicking in, rather than the actions of a vigilante permit holder?
     
  10. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    It is a safe assumption that he had a carry permit, just based on the news saying he had a "pistol permit".
     
  11. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    I missed that news story. Which one said that?
     
  12. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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  13. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    What part of my post is misleading?

    In NYC, if your permit does not say anything about "carry" on it, THE LAW in NYC is that you cannot carry on your permit.

    I just re-read my post, and I can't find anything misleading in it. :headscratch:

    1. The majority of permits in NYS (excluding NYC) are not "unrestricted.
    2. Municipalities (counties, etc) thumb their noses at state law and place these restrictions on permits, said restrictions which have been challenged in courts, and upheld by judges.


    'Drew
    :cool:
     
  14. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    He is a retired (decorated) detective. "Retired" usually means, 20 and out, or 12-15 with some disability (IIRC). If he is fire chief someplace else, it is very unlikely that he has a LE career ending disability. So yes, after 20 yrs on the job, it is very likely that his "LE genes" kicked in.

    Unfortunately for him, HE KNEW as a former LEO, and as fire chief, and as a permit holder that there was absolutely no basis, legality or foundation of sanity in that stop he conducted, if it is as reported (is it ever?) by the news rag.

    I did not mean to portray permit holders, current LE, former LE or firemen as vigilantes...BUT here in NY, when you spot a "wannabe" it's usually someone in public service, someone who was separated from public service, or someone who was denied employment in public service.

    There is a (unrelated) story in Yonkers about some guys who formed a SPCA so they could get peace officer status (this is how NY does crap)...I'll dig up a link.

    'Drew
     
  15. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Is he living inside or outside NYC? I was thinking outside NYC, which puts him under the NYS permit.

    If NYS permit, the vast majority of permits are "permit to carry".

    Restricted versus Unrestricted does NOT matter with regard to legally carrying.

    The courts have upheld exactly what? That the restrictions can be placed, and are a condition of keeping the permit? And if you don't follow the restrictions, then you can lose your permit? If all that, then doesn't matter. Doesn't matter, until your permit is pulled.

    If you are saying that the courts have ruled that having a restriction means you can't legally carry as if "unrestricted", then that would be BIG news to me, and I'd like to see some links, if possible. I'm unrestricted, but know people who do have "restrictions".
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  16. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    bump, for reference...
     
  17. snevel

    snevel

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    Re-read the OP...

    The schmuck is/was nyFd (Fire department) not nyPd

    Simeon
     
  18. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    Read the linked news story - retired NYPD. Oh, and it is FDNY, not nyFD. :thumbsup:

     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  19. JuneyBooney

    JuneyBooney

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    I would bet that they are found not guilty if the so called victim is a gang member.
     
  20. Sgt_Gold

    Sgt_Gold

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    Up until the passage of the LEOSA the only department where you had a 100% chance of getting a 'full carry' permit upon retirement was the NYSP because they are the issuing agency for retiring state troopers. It was not uncommon for a LEO to retire to a different part of NYS and have the local judge issue a restricted license. I know of a few retired NYPD officers who had to deal with this.

    As to Mr. Charles, what a moron. I wonder what's going to happen to the idiot with the shotgun.