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NY: Gun shop owner feels 'duped' by ATF agents

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Smashy, Jan 27, 2010.

  1. Smashy

    Smashy

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    ALEXANDRIA BAY — The owner of Panunzio's Guns, Route 37, said he was duped by federal authorities when he sold a rifle to a woman he later learned was an undercover agent.

    U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents and state police executed a search warrant Tuesday afternoon at the town of Alexandria store. Louis R. Panunzio, the 79-year-old shop owner, who has been selling guns for more than 40 years, said he was surprised by the raid.

    Mr. Panunzio said he recalled a man visiting the shop several months ago looking to buy a rifle.

    "The fellow came in once before and filled out the proper papers and was denied," Mr. Panunzio said. "He came back a month or two later with a woman. She filled out the papers and wasn't denied."

    Mr. Panunzio said that until he was informed by ATF agents Tuesday, he didn't know the Browning rifle sold to the woman actually was for the man who was denied ownership. He said he also was told both conversations were recorded by the undercover agents.

    "She can do whatever she wants with the weapon after I sold it," Mr. Panunzio said. "I think I was (duped) a little bit."

    ATF agents seized his business records and a few handguns from his shop, he said. No criminal charges have been filed, ATF officials said Tuesday night.


    http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20100127/NEWS05/301279948
     
  2. DScottHewitt

    DScottHewitt EMT-B

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    Not sure what he did illegal, unless the undercover agent said "I am buying this gun for my _____________________, because he was denied several months ago. I am sure you remember he was in here MONTHS AGO and he was denied."
     

  3. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    You can't see me, but I'm sitting here shaking my head.

    ATF, don't you have better things to do? Do your tape recordings show that the gun seller knew the gun was for the man, and that the man couldn't buy a gun?

    Society, if we aren't going to trust someone with guns let's put them in jail. Because we don't want them to have access to rocks either.
     
  4. k594

    k594

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    its known as a "straw sale" buying a gun for another who is prohibited from buying.
     
  5. kestrou

    kestrou Pin Member #4

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    Why don't they add a checkbox to the Federal form for people to check off that says "I'm buying this rifle for myself, or for someone that is not prohibited from owning firearms".

    Sure that would solve the problem, right?! :upeyes:

    At least then the FFL could point to the form and say the purchaser did say it was for themselves.

    kestrou
     
  6. vafish

    vafish

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    Yeah but if the only indication was that the man had been denied months before how was a 79 year old man supposed to remember that. Heck I don't think I'd remember every single person who was denied buying a gun if I were a gun shop owner.
     
  7. DScottHewitt

    DScottHewitt EMT-B

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    Uh, yeah. Thanx.



    I think the point the rest of us are making is that is kind of hard to say the gunshop owner did something wrong, unless he was told that she was buying the gun for the male, and that the male was known by the gunshop owner to be an illegal purchaser. Notice that the guy had come into the store and got denied MONTHS BEFORE. Now, how busy is the shop? How many people were in and out in the time in between his visit, and the set up visit?
     
  8. MavsX

    MavsX The Dude Abides

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    lol..
     
  9. greatwun

    greatwun Senior Member

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    How exactly would you prove this in court other than the fact the guy was in there months before and was denied? There's not one indication she was gonna give him the gun afterwards.
     
  10. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Then the agent buying the gun should be put in jail:rofl:
     
  11. jmsfmtex

    jmsfmtex

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    Sorry folks but for many years now it is not a good idea to put your trust in, what used to be, your government. All agencies are the same. There is a budget and it is distributed in many ways. One is to show you are doing something. It really does not matter how much or to what success you have just so you show something. The more the better. In my last few years of life I just want to think about how good it used to be. All generations have said this and now I know why. WE THE PEOPLE have lost and it is just a matter of time before we will have lost more than we could ever imagine.
     
  12. MrsKitty

    MrsKitty

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    Hrm. That makes me wonder about how many purchases are denied vs completed. Depending on the numbers, it could be very easy to impossible to remember.
     
  13. HollowHead

    HollowHead Firm member

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    I'm holding an ATF form 4473 in front of me and the first question is the buyer's swearing that they are the actual buyer of the firearm. If she checked "yes", wouldn't the shop owner be off the hook? Or, does the law say that the sale must be denied if the lawfull buyer is accompanied by an unlawful buyer and they're expecting this old guy to remember that far back? HH
     
  14. Fed Five Oh

    Fed Five Oh NRA Member

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    If the owner is not guilty, then it is a good thing for him that the conversations were recorded.

    If he is guilty, then it is not a good thing for him that the conversations were recorded.
     
  15. janice6

    janice6 Silver Member

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    Do you have to clear the buyer of the gun, and then the "horse" he rode in on?

    What if she came in with 5 guys. Do you clear all of them just to be safe?
     
  16. Tx-G30

    Tx-G30

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    don't they have anything better to do like... chasing down illegal aliens or something?
     
  17. Peace Warrior

    Peace Warrior Am Yisrael Chai CLM

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    *insert face palm pic here*
     
  18. buckhunter3987

    buckhunter3987

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    If they charge him, wouldn't that be entrapment?? Of course we all know they never do that...


    :steamed:
     
  19. carrynaspringfield45

    carrynaspringfield45 Dirk

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    Lmao! Yep, slap her with the "straw sale" charge and throw her in the clink!
     
  20. JuneyBooney

    JuneyBooney

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    He is an old man and they want to put him out of business. I don't think anyone has ever said the ATF was honest. They had better have some strong evidence that he knew the man was a prohibited person. His conduct has to be willful and knowingly to be convicted but they will use this to close him down.:steamed: