NY - Am I in Trouble or Just Paranoid?

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by moncoacp, Feb 19, 2010.

  1. moncoacp

    moncoacp

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    Yesterday I went to a local casino (operated under the NYS Lottery) while Dad was getting dialysis. Was there about 2 hours when 2 Sheriff's Deputies and several casino security approached and asked if I was "________", I said yes and they asked me to step to the side with them. I did while security watched my VP machine. One deputy asked me if I was armed and I said yes and lifted my sweater where my G26 was IWB. The deputy took it out and then asked me to accompany them to the security office.

    Inside they explained that it was NY Lottery "policy" to not allow firearms. I explained that I am always very, very careful when entering any public establishment to look for signs regarding the carrying of firearms. I said I saw no such sign when I came in. (Casinos are not a place regulated by law for a prohibition against cc - schools, courthouses, etc are specified by statute). Security told me there was a sign on all doors.

    Everyone was very polite. The deputies ran my pistol permit to determine that it was valid, ran the serial number to makes sure the gun was not stolen and then returned it to me. Security said that I was being asked to leave for the day only and not to carry again. I was escorted part way out and then went to the front of the casino to pick up my car. I looked at the door and noticed that all the signage was done by frosting the letters on clear glass which gave the letters a whiteish-silver effect. The warning about the firearms was lined up perfectly with the back of the crash bar on the inside of the door making the lettering virtually impossible to read. One of the deputies came out (after escorting a drunk out) and I pointed this out to him. He said he would take it up with casino security.

    No crime was committed, but being in NY I am paranoid about whether the casino might report to the County Judges that I had been cc'ing in a place where I was "warned" not to carry a firearm implying that I am not a responsible firearms owner. This could lead to my permit being revoked.

    Should I just wait it out or are there suggestions of what I might do to forestall or prepare for the possibility of a report to our licensing officers (judges).

    PS: Both deputies were very young and one said that the JHP's in my gun were "illegal". I told him they were not armor piercing, so were legal. He checked with a superior and was assured they were legal as long as they were not teflon coated.

    PPS: Does anyone have any thoughts on how they knew my full name when they approached me? I do not use a casino card in the machine that does track play under a name. If using a card they could determine who was at a particular machine, but like I said, I was not using such a card. The only thing I could think of was facial recognition off surveillance tapes matched to DMV photos but that seems pretty sophisticated for that place.
     
  2. liberty addict

    liberty addict

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    1. I recommend moving to a free state instead of the commie one you are in.

    As for your question, see #1.
     

  3. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    First, I don't think you have anything to worry about with your judge. You didn't do anything illegal.

    Even if they, or any other place, have a sign saying no guns, I am not aware of it being illegal to enter with a gun (aside from the places that NYS laws says guns are illegal). As far as I know, it is only illegal to refuse to leave when asked to.

    Second, hollow points are not illegal, nor are teflon coated hollow points, nor are Winchester Black Talons. So funny that cops would think they are.

    Third, I bet your gun was printing. Think about it, even if they had a database match from your credit card name to a NYS permit database, they aren't going to harass every permit owner who walked in there. Unless somehow they have that database link, and do actually check every permit owner, with cops in tow, but I doubt it. Doesn't seem plausible.

    More likely, you were printing, and then your credit card or whatever, somehow identified your name. You were printing, so they called the cops. So many guys on GT don't think they print, and they tell everyone else to not worry about it. Personally, I try not to print, and take it as a big deal, for exactly the kind of thing that happened to you in this post.

    Other possibility is some sort of airport scanning for weapons. Something high tech that you were unaware of. But I doubt it. I mean, look at the airport, you have to specifically walk into those things, and they ask you to take crap out of your pockets first. Otherwise, they'd be calling the cops all day long for false alarms.

    Instead, I think it is just the more old fashioned, the gun was printing through your clothes and someone noticed it. Or maybe you went to the bathroom, and they have cameras there, and saw your gun uncovered. Or someone there saw your gun. Something like that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  4. michael88

    michael88

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    if its a casino maybe they have some sort of super facial recognition software....j/k, did you sign in under any sort of members rewards or frequent player program, or start the juice for comps? if so they had it way before they noticed your gun.
     
  5. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Good and helpful advice.

    There might be others posting on GT who are from California or New Jersey, or other states that require a permit to carry concealed. There might even be some people here from countries that require background checks for gun purchases, or that require tax stamps for machine guns. So, you probably should go find their posts and warn them to move to the free place that you live where the right to keep and bear arms is not infringed. Thank you for your service in leading us all to freedom.
     
  6. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    My thoughts:


    1. Did you mean by "___________" that they asked for you by name? If yes, why?
    2. If you had your permit on your person, it should list the make/model/ser# of the firearm. Why would they need to "run" it beyond that?
    3. If your permit is for target/hunting/sportsman/employment, and they reported it to the county or judge, you might have some explaining to do.
    4. How were you "made"?
    As an aside, many casinos share all kinds of juicy info with other casinos. I would recommend you not carry at other casinos in NY, because as sure as water is wet, you're now in that database.

    'Drew
     
  7. Gunnut 45/454

    Gunnut 45/454

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    Got a question for you- If and when they pull your CCW don't they also pull your permit to own? Which means you have to turn your firearms in? Remember NYS has a laws on gun ownership not a Constitutional right! Remember the COTUS doesn't apply as NYS doesn't recognize it!:rofl:
     
  8. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    On the face of it, true.

    But, it is also true that some counties allow you to write in your own make/model/ser#.

    So, I guess if I wanted to steal a gun, and then list it on my permit, I could physically do that. I'd say, see officer, it is listed on my permit.

    The bigger question would be, why would officers suspect a gun is stolen? They don't. Maybe fishing, beause they like to fish.
     
  9. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Yup. Usually the CCW is also the permit to own.

    That's why all my handguns are listed on my wife's permit :rofl:
     
  10. mdhandyman

    mdhandyman

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    Did you have your car parked by a valay? Maybe they watched you get out an followed you throu the place an just went back an got your name from your car. Ether way I don't thinck you should here from the judge on this even if you do live in a commie State. J/K :cool:
     
  11. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Hey, that's a good possibility.

    Also, did you fiddle with your gun in your car? They probably got cameras all over the place.

    Someguys who carry probably do some fiddling with a gun just before they get out of their car, or as they get out of their car. Camera could have been zoomed in, and saw you pick your nose, then saw you peak at your gun and cover it better with your shirt. Then they called the cops. Cops had your license plate#, and thus your name. Then security found where you were inside the place.

    The cops asked if you were so and so, because of your license plate match, then asked if you were carrying a gun, then a thorough check-up on you, and then made themselves look dumb by thinking hollow-points were illegal :)
     
  12. moncoacp

    moncoacp

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    I assumed either printing or bent over and anyone could have seen that or an especially perceptive security guard saw the IWB clip on the belt. I just couldn't figure out how they knew my name because I had no casino card and did not use a credit card at all since I used cash.

    BTW, I do have to go back because I was up $355 when all this happened and I did not want to go back through the casino to cash out. I wish the whole thing had been handled in the security office instead of being disarmed on the casino floor in public. I certainly gave them no reason to think I was any trouble when they first approached. If they has asked if I was armed and then said come with us, it would have been much better (for me) although I can see their concern since they had no idea who I was other than my name.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  13. moncoacp

    moncoacp

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    nope no card, no comps, no credit card. just sat down, put in cash and started to play.
     
  14. moncoacp

    moncoacp

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    1. Yes, they asked by name and I have no idea how they knew my name. See my later posts about that.

    2. Permit did list the make, model, serial # (I had several since my county requires a new permit for each weapon purchased). I presented it and they took it as well as my driver's license. The Deputy said they were going to check to see if the gun was stolen or reported in crime. I did not tell them that I purchased it new.

    3. I got my original permit in 1975 and it is totally unrestricted.

    4. As per another post, I either printed, bent over wrong and anyone saw it an reported it to security or a particularly perceptive security officer saw the IWB clip and played it safe.

    I have gone to Turning Stone in Verona and Seneca Niagara in Niagara Falls and have never carried there because a. they are Indian casinos and I have no idea what might they do with the weapon since they claim to be sovereign, but more importantly b. they have prominent easy to read signs clearly indicating no weapons on the casino floor (I lock mine in the safe in the hotel room if I am staying or in the lockbox in my car if there just for the day.)
     
  15. moncoacp

    moncoacp

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    Yes, in NY it is a permit to own a particular handgun. If the permits go, so do the weapons. They would have to pull the permit since my permits are unrestricted. There is no separate CCW except for any restrictions the judge might put on the permit.
     
  16. moncoacp

    moncoacp

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    I did think of that since I did valet park. However, I got there at 2 pm and was not approached until almost 4 pm. I would think that if they suspected a weapon, they would not have waited that long. Same as if the guy parking the car was nosy or a thief because I did have a box of ammo in a closed compartment inside the door but again it was almost 2 hours before they approached me. Of course, maybe they just waited and if I had been losing they would have just let it go. :rofl:
     
  17. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    There's some strong possibilty they did look in your glove compartment. Skippy may have reported the ammo to his boss. Who then went to security. Security maybe glassed you for a while, then saw your IWB clip, or saw you print.

    Called the cops, etc.

    Ammo in the glove box.
    NRA sticker on the car.
    Glock hat.
    Glock Talk t-shirt.
    IWB clip on your belt.

    They had you made :rofl:
     
  18. timetrial-pro

    timetrial-pro

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    One Question, have you received a new drivers license recently? They more then likely have RF towers at the doors so they know if the card sharks, card counters, and gun nuts are in the house...
     
  19. hoffy

    hoffy

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    I am out the door and this will be quick, difficult for me. My guess is all casinos have facial recognition to fight counters and other cheats. If it is run or administered by the state, they they would have access to your face on your permit. Now I could be all wet, but when you posed that question that is the first thing I thought of, and I read down far enough to see I was not the only one. FR is being used more and more, and the alphabet soups, as we called them in grad school(CIA, NSA etc.) are using this all the time, as they should be, they really are trying to hurt this country, and have patience , so we can never let our guard down regarding terrorists. BTW, hope your Dad does ok, hate to hear he is sick, dealing with that my self. :wavey:
     
  20. ammoguy3460

    ammoguy3460

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    All the talk about facial recognition is pure bs. Sure, they likely have the technology as it's useful to them, but they don't have access to any database that has your info in it, unless you've done something casino related. They likely just used cameras to follow you back to your car and the PD ran your plates. Also, I know good video surveillance software is starting to come out that attempts to identify weapons or other suspicious objects on people - even under clothing (by analyzing the bulges and how your clothing moves as you move). That is one possible way you were made.