Nosediving got me stumped

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by DEMONICVOMIT, Sep 17, 2019.

  1. DEMONICVOMIT

    DEMONICVOMIT

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2016
    ok so, the gun is a stock 26, i started reloading to save a little money and have fun in the process. i wanted a soft shooting 147gr round. my components are Berrys 147 gr RN, GBW brass, CCI small pistol primer, and Titegroup powder. My first batch i did 3.2, 3.4, 3.6 gr with a COAL of 1.165. Every 10rd mag i shot had two to three nosedives. So, my next batch i did 3.6 and 3.8 gr with a COAL of 1.145. Still had three nosedives out of one hundred rounds. My last batch was 3.8 gr with a COAL of 1.130. Again had three nosedives out of one hundred. The shortest COAL i can load to with this bullet is 1.124 but that small difference seems negligible and i don't want to waste the time and supplies for the same result. i replaced the mag springs thinking that would help and it didn't. i used the new springs in the last batch. all factory ammo has shot flawless. it has to be the reload and i can't think of anything else to try short of starting over with all new components. please any input is greatly appreciated.
     
  2. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    30,780
    Likes Received:
    9,352
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    Its the magazine followers. They are diff in 10rd mags vs std capacity. Though if it rundps factory ammo, not sure why it wont run reloads. Nose diving is usually a mag issue. If you have any std cap mags, try those with your reloads.
     

  3. DEMONICVOMIT

    DEMONICVOMIT

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2016
    unfortunately i don't have any. CA rules, 10rds only.
     
  4. jmorris

    jmorris

    Messages:
    2,845
    Likes Received:
    1,379
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Are you running Glock mags? 34,17,19,26, they all run like a clock stock with 3.2 of TG and a plated [email protected]”.

    With 1911/2011 style pistols, mags can make all the difference.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_W2LyTQVrs


    With my Glocks, I use Glock mags except for my .22 conversions. Takes the homework out of the problem.
     
  5. DEMONICVOMIT

    DEMONICVOMIT

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2016
    They are stock glock mags. I just ordered new 9mm6 followers so when they arrive I will hit the range and see how they cycle.
     
    fredj338 likes this.
  6. jmorris

    jmorris

    Messages:
    2,845
    Likes Received:
    1,379
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    When you do, if it malfunctions again, snap a photo of the failed position.
     
  7. OttoLoader

    OttoLoader

    Messages:
    1,152
    Likes Received:
    1,353
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Are you using standard Glock 26 gen 3 OEM mags?
    Did you measure oal of the commercial ammo 147 gr that fed?
     
  8. Scott60

    Scott60

    Messages:
    289
    Likes Received:
    407
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2018
    Which round out of a loaded mag nose-dived? Were the dives at or near the first round, or at or near empty?
    Did any nose-dives happen using the slide release to chamber?
    Are you using a shok-buff?
    Are you using the OEM RSA with factory rated spring?
    Do you have an OEM ejector or an aftermarket profile?
    Is it a stock barrel or aftermarket?
    Did you replace mag springs with stiffer springs?

    Have you tried running maximum C.O.A.L - >1.165?
     
  9. Scott60

    Scott60

    Messages:
    289
    Likes Received:
    407
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2018
    Did the dives occur near the first round or the last round in the mag?
    Factory barrel?
    OEM ejector?
    OEM RSA?
    Shok-buff?
    Mag springs extra power?
    Have you tried maximum OAL - 1.165?
     
  10. DEMONICVOMIT

    DEMONICVOMIT

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2016
    The rounds that dived were the 2nd and middle(4,5,6). My first batch were all 1.165, that was the length the most diving happened. The G26 and mags are 100% stock. I examined the followers I have now and they are pretty worn down. All factory ammo ranged from 1.110-1.165 with all different grain bullets and RN and HP.
     
  11. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

    Messages:
    30,451
    Likes Received:
    24,577
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Location:
    Upstate NY, USA
    I don't know.

    But if the mags are old, maybe the springs are weak.

    Maybe factory rounds would start to nosedive around now, if tried a hundred.

    If factory rounds don't nosedive, what is different about yours? Maybe OAL a little longer, maybe taper crimp a little less, maybe slide cycle speed a little faster/slower, maybe brass a little dirtier. And of course the bullet shape.

    Sorry, I'm not much help.
     
  12. jmorris

    jmorris

    Messages:
    2,845
    Likes Received:
    1,379
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    I too am at a loss. I have shot many, many thousands of Berry’s 147 9mm’s @ 1.160” using 3.2 gn of titegroup out of Glock 26’s, 19’s, 17’s, 34’s and even a FA G17c


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c7OZoOBYc0


    It’s my #3 pick for a minor load and #1 as far as price is concerned.

    I have decades old Glock mags with tens of thousands of rounds each that still have stock springs and followers.
     
  13. unclebob

    unclebob DFC, MSM, 12 Air Medals.

    Messages:
    9,309
    Likes Received:
    2,526
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2000
    Location:
    Mary Esther FL
    Will your rounds case gauge in a case gauge not using the barrel? Could be you still have a slight bell on the case?
     
  14. jmorris

    jmorris

    Messages:
    2,845
    Likes Received:
    1,379
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    I couldn’t think of any reason for a nosedive so I went and grabbed a 26 and some 147 Berry’s at 1.160”.

    This is what it looks like in the mag.

    3BE8DBAD-EF1F-4796-863E-4A820F917ED3.jpeg

    Lower the slide to the point it starts pushing the case and it looks like this.

    BFB99B39-2979-43C2-84CF-C5EE766A4071.jpeg

    This is nose contact with ramp.
    FFCCFDA0-8D4E-4C48-AB3B-733C3346A30F.jpeg

    And going into the chamber.
    74C3D589-5AD9-427B-AFBF-691A3772B019.jpeg


    Post a photo where yours is nose diving.

    Is the pistol completely stock, no changes to anything?
     
    ithaca_deerslayer and Taterhead like this.
  15. DEMONICVOMIT

    DEMONICVOMIT

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2016
    Here's one of the nosedives
     

    Attached Files:

  16. jmorris

    jmorris

    Messages:
    2,845
    Likes Received:
    1,379
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    What exactly do you have there? I’m not “hip” to the new stuff but it doesn’t even look like any factory Glock slide I have come across.

    It’s ok if it’s not all factory but ANY changes are helpful in diagnosing your problem. If you are trying to figure out an 80% kit and are calling it a stock Glock 26 you are not helping us solve your problems.

    Anyway, this gap between the metal feed lips and round shouldn’t be there, whatever is causing that is your problem.

    FED3FAA4-3F3B-4A5B-B213-7DDFBFD58BA5.jpeg

    The case should be against the feed lips so they can do their job, like this.

    246245A2-043A-4ADC-A805-FEBCEB97C847.jpeg

    Maintain that relationship between the case and feed lips and the bullet can’t miss the chamber.

    9A61FFC6-3B60-4F36-8731-6C06A1129DDB.jpeg

    Is the round making contact with the slide stop?

    How about a top side view at slide lock with a magazine like this?

    1A56C172-159C-44F3-B134-2FE5C49102F8.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  17. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

    Messages:
    30,451
    Likes Received:
    24,577
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Location:
    Upstate NY, USA
    But isn't the gap in his pic just showing because the round nose dived down (thus making the gap appear)?
     
    Mr Meeseeks likes this.
  18. jmorris

    jmorris

    Messages:
    2,845
    Likes Received:
    1,379
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    I don’t have the answer to that question. I am not sure what he even has at this point. In the OP he said “stock 26” but his doesn’t appear to be the same as the “stock 26” I have.

    His case appears to be further back in the mag and I presume hitting the ramp than the 3rd photo of mine in #16.

    If his case is staying up against the feed lips and at the point of contact with the ramp pull the nose down so it doesn’t make contact, someone must have stepped on it, making them too close together, thus pointing the nose down.

    Another good thing to check though.

    They should be parallel and fairly close to this.

    549C4A81-3806-44AE-BBEE-CE96507DEE42.jpeg
     
    ithaca_deerslayer likes this.
  19. DEMONICVOMIT

    DEMONICVOMIT

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2016
    This is a glock 26. The slide has been ported. Everything else IS stock no internals or parts have been changed since purchasing brand new. The gap in the other photos were due to the nosedive. This is how it looks normally. Starting to think the new followers and cleaning the inside of the mags may be what's needed. The insides are pretty nasty. Maybe the followers are skipping up the inside of the mag preventing full lift for the next round to hit the ramp properly
     

    Attached Files:

  20. jmorris

    jmorris

    Messages:
    2,845
    Likes Received:
    1,379
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Not that it matters much but neither of those bullets are berry’s 147gn RN bullets.

    You have me stumped too though.

    From the two FMJ photos that are going to make it right in, I can’t see how the longer 147’s miss low enough to hit the bottom of a Glock ramp.

    You try measuring or at least different factory mags?