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Non-Live Fire Laser Practice

  1. Is it worth/useful for training purposes to have a system that avoids racking the slide for each shot or not if there is no recoil and the "slide" is static? A reset trigger or SIRT provides repeated shots. But if there is no recoil are repeated shots useful? I shot a SIRT at a laser range which was "fun" but it was very easy to be accurate with repeated shots where there was no recoil. It is cheaper to buy a laser cartridge that will work in all my Glocks and easily adapted to my revolvers draw the gun, a real gun, and take a shot. I would not be engaging multiple targets but I would think, the draw, presentation and first shot is the most important.
    Or is it better to avoid the aggravation of racking the slide for each shot and have the ability to engage multiple targets even though there is no recoil? I just ordered a Dryfiremag as I think independent of the the visual laser shooting concept it has merit for me at this time.
     
  2. There are actually multiple answers here: if you get a dryfiremag, you can't use a laser that relies on the firing pin to trigger. And the ones that work off sound don't necessarily work wih it, either.

    Yes, there is value in using a laser... IF you also get a laser target. If you are busy looking for where the laser hits, you are reinforcing a really bad habit.

    An automatic trigger reset has a lot of value for dry fire, and keeps you from racking that slide in practice.

    I believe the only laser that works with a dryfiremag is the laserlyte Glock replacement barrel. Though those are also pretty crappy; I've worn one out already.

    Dry fire ammo is free.
     
  3. It has been suggested that dry fire practice that includes racking the slide helps to instill muscle memory that could be needed in a stressful situation including reloads so you're better prepared.

    I have recently purchased an iTarget that includes a dry fire laser cartridge and while it's not the be all/end all of practice solutions, I can get a few minutes of practice when ever I want to descend into the basement and squeeze off a few. It's not for everyone, but it works pretty good for me.
     
  4. I have to rack the slide with mine. I think there is value in being able to fire multiple shots with multiple laser targets without having to rack the slide. Its not as good as live fire because of the lack of recoil of course but I think there is value.
     
  5. I have done my usual OC research on this. I realize the Dryfiremag isn't going to work with a laser but will use it independently from the laser training. Also the Laser Ammo target looks interesting. If I have to rack the slide for each shot I don't see the advantage of the integrated three target set. If I have a reset trigger or SIRT the three target set would have value in spite of the cost :-(
    BTW I also am the "Will Rodgers of Pies"!
     
  6. There is a way to get repeated cycling and recoil using a laser. Buy the KWA Glock simulated airsoft pistol and then add the Laser Ammo replacement barrel and laser or their rail laser attachment. These lasers work off vibration. But this gets really expensive around $450-$500. These are green gas blow back cycling slides which would shoot airsoft pellets or laser beam. In addition to the cost, dealing with a gas operated air pistol i suspect would end up being a pain. I doubt they would prove to be reliable but could be wrong. At any rate I've decided this isn't an option.
     
  7. The Dryfiremag works with the laser barrel replacement from Laserlyte.
     
  8. Thanks. But Amazon reviews were not very good. Concept sounds great but apparently not the execution.
     
  9. The purpose of dry fire is to develop mechanical, visual and cognitive shooting skills. In live fire, the fact that a gun is going off always occupies some of your attention.

    One of the keys to success in live fire is to learn to not be distracted by the muzzle blast and flip, and just shoot according to your mechanical ability. Dry fire is where you learn what that ability is, what it can look like in live fire, and how to improve it.

    Transitioning a pistol around target arrays to different types of sight pictures takes a lot of skill. Taking the blast and flip out of the equation lets you work just on that.

    If you get deeply enough into dry fire, you will eventually realize it encompasses almost everything in pistol shooting. The fact that bullets are coming out of the barrel and hitting targets is secondary. All the information you need to place those hits comes from dry fire skills.

    The only thing you really need live fire for is to learn how to optimally support the gun, and how to observe live sights.
     
  10. I talked to Laserlyte support about this. Those users did not turn off the unit after use, so it was listening for a sound constantly. I ordered one. I'll share my experience.
     
  11. That is not true, and I was one of those Amazon reviewers.

    Edit: Not true in what the gripes and user errors actually are, not that they didn't tell you that.
     
  12. I always heard if you can master a revolver, you can shoot anything.

    For me, it's the penny on the barrel balancing act and hope it translates to every thing else.

    I also heard a guy talking about iTarget at a match yesterday... seems interesting but maybe another $100 down the rat hole?
     
  13. Dem Rats have lots of holes-lol. Well I'm broke. Bought a SIRT red laser with metal "slide", Laser Ammo three interactive targets and the Dryfiringmag. If I haven't squandered sufficient money one day I may get a Laserlyte Training Pistol Lt-Pre that inserts in the muzzle of any pistol or revolver .380-.45. With the Glocks and a LCP it is one shot and cycle the slide. I have two revolvers that you just keep pressing the trigger and firing the laser. Great solution for revolvers. Maybe I avoid that "rat hole", but it is saved in the Amazon "saved for later" cart :)
     
  14. Sounds like one of the glocktalk brain trust could make a living inventing a better dry fire setup.
     
  15. I agree Paul. I am assuming the the Dryfiremag has a reasonable "Glock like pull/reset". If so, Laser Ammo or Laserlyte should come up with a sound or vibration activated laser that works with the Mag. I suspect they are already close with their current products. But the real prize would be a gas blow back slide included with one of the laser cartridges with factory Glock like sights for $300-$350. The demand for airsoft pistols is huge especially in Asia. I would think the Glock like airsoft/laser hybrid would have a small market which no one would pursue with the Asian airsoft manufacturers unless Laserlyte or Laser Ammo took the lead.
     
  16. OP...laser is genrally a pain in an auto. I use laser cartridges in a S&W. You can also get a plastic Glock lookalike laser gun.
     
  17. Actually a point about the signature line. It's fake news. Our Constitution clearly established a representative republic - not a democracy, and a Supreme Court Justice would not utter such a false statement. If he did, please provide the case citation and I'll admit the error.
     
  18. I have used one and the wife too, it did have the effect of dryfiring often. I had one inch squares from Post-it Notes all over the house. Improved her accuracy. Not perfect of course, but it is okay and I think worth it
    With ours you could rack while holding trigger down and then allow trigger reset and fire.
     
  19. Yes a SIRT is on the way :)
     
  20. I have used the Sure Strike Laser Bullet from Laser Ammo for years...beats all others and customer service is grand.
     
  21. Looks like a better cartridge than Laserlyte and I may get one some day.
     
  22. I've bought and tried most laser dry fire gizmos. I've got TWO SIRT pistols, the LaserLyte LT-PRO and the LT-PRE, the Laserlyte Laser Target.... and more. My favorite combo is the IR (infrared) SIRT and the LASR app. They all work and have their place.

    The one gizmo I'd recommend AGAINST buying: The Coolfire CO2 recoil / laser system. It is expensive and does NOT live up to the promises. It simply doesn't work as advertised. It's a great concept. It's just not ready for prime time.
     
  23. I just ordered a SIRT, a NLT version of a G-17 with red and green laser lights.
     
  24. I set up a Glock Airsoft range in the basement. I have a gas blowback G19 and G26. It adds a little more fun into my practice routine and I can work on magazine changes and holster draw to fire.

    I have a laser bullet and reset trigger with laser targets, but I got bored with that pretty quickly.
     
  25. I am toying with the idea of something like a HWS ATP gass blow back Glock like airsoft. How do you "control" the airsoft pellets? Will they penetrate the front side of a cardboard box, not exit the back side so all pellets remain in the box? I was thinking biodegradable pellets may work of in the backyard. But bottom line I don't need bunch of shot pellets making a mess.
     
  26. I have that one and the infrared version. The advantage of the IR laser is that you can't "chase the dot" or "walk the shot in" to the target when firing multiple sequential shots. A visible laser tends to take your eyes off the sights and to the target (to watch where the hits are landing). With the IR laser (and the LASR software + infrared-capable camera), you can't "cheat" by walking the shots into the "bullseye." The LASR app records the shots for later review.

    Another great use for the SIRT pistol (with visible green / red laser) is for teaching shooting newbies. It's an excellent and very effective way to teach new shooters proper and safe gun handling.... sight alignment... sight picture... trigger control... etc... BEFORE going to a live range, where the loud noise can be intimidating to a new shooter and make communication difficult.
     
  27. Well back to the drawing board! The SIRT laser is not compatible with the Laser Ammo Interactive targets. The L.A. target does not recognize the SIRT laser frequency. I think the L.A. P.E.T. target will recognize the SIRT frequency. The SIRT trigger is not very "Glock like" and of course there is no recoil so I question the value of multiple shots. I'm thinking of keeping the Interactive Target system and going with a Laser Ammo IR cartridge and racking the slide. If the racking becomes a pain i could get the L.A. reset trigger. There again the three Interactive Targets probably are not that useful racking the slide between shots :-( I'm turning this into a much bigger project than I intended! I like what JNC has but I don't want pellets all over the garage and I can't shoot it in the house. Though one day I may get an airsoft for the backyard and shoot biodegradable pellets. I don't see the value in buying the airsoft and converting it to L.A. laser system. That's pushing $500 and the noise will limit me to the garage and outside.
    Questions:
    JNC and any others- how "Glock like" is the reset trigger? Is there a take-up, break, and reset?
    Any experience with Laserlyte targets and Laser Ammo targets? I gather L.A.S.R software and camera is the best way to go but I just want to get started and if I get into I would look into this later.
     
  28. Most laser targets require a red laser "shot" to be detected. I just looked back in the thread and saw that you got the red laser SIRT. Hmmm... that's weird.

    The value is not having to rack the slide for every single shot. :) The idea is high repetitions of sight alignment, sight picture, and trigger presses... lots and lots of repetitions without having to STOP and rack the slide each time.

    Been there. Done that! :) I've bought a lot of these gizmos over the years. I thought the Coolfire Trainer was going to be the "holy grail." NOPE! Not only is it not the holy grail, it doesn't perform as advertised. And, damn it was pricey!


    I don't have experience with the $200 reset trigger. That's a lot for a reset trigger. I'd enjoy hearing anyone's actual experience with it. I like my SIRT pistol. I find the trigger "close enough," but I don't think I'm that sensitive to such nuances. And, I like being able to just pick the SIRT up and start pulling the trigger over and over.

    PS... I have a Laserlyte Laser Target designed for red lasers, and my IR SIRT works with it! But, it won't work with my green laser SIRT.
     
  29. Thanks Racer.
     
  30. Just FYI: the Laserlyte Glock barrel does not trigger when using the Dryfiremag.

    However, the new Laserlyte barrel is much better than the first gen was.
     
  31. So the rep lied to me?
     
  32. I only know what's in my own heart.
     
  33. I bought a SIRT pistol-red/red laser and metal "slide". The more I shoot the more I like it. I ordered a Laser Ammo P.E.T target and two Laserlyte Rumble Cans (half price on Amazon). "Shooting" light bulbs is great sport as they really reflect the laser and you know you hit them.
     
  34. I've been using the iTarget system in my basement and so far it seems pretty good. iTarget incorporates your smart phone into the system to capture hits and report performance.

    When I purchased my setup I bought the rifle laser cartridge so I don't yet have the 9mm cartridge for my system. I have the goal of getting the 9mm cartridge to make my system complete and more useful. While accurate, the system doesn't easily accommodate the 100yd zero of my rifle. To compensate for the difference between poa/poi I have adjusted my sights as well as used an adjusted poa for training purposes.

    I understand that the system functions by reading the laser light as it impacts the target during the exercise and that some might consider racking the slide a bother while others might consider this an important skill to practice. In any case, the system works well and I can receive immediate feed back on my shooting as well as save the "snapshot" of my target for future reference.

    I have incorporated another app that I've downloaded to my phone call SubMOA to my shooting for target grouping analysis.
     
  35. This is something that I came across.

    It's a bit expensive but they use CO2 and a laser. It's about $400 for a kit. It gives the sensation of recoil with the slide, and a laser projects onto a target.

    http://coolfiretrainer.com/
     
  36. I have one.... with problems yet unresolved. I cannot recommend it. Not yet.
     
  37. Oh. That's too bad. It looked promising. What issues do you have? I wanted one...
     
  38. In short... it doesn't work as advertised. Multiple issues. They now want to work with me on those issues. So, we'll see what happens. Google "Coolfire trainer review."
     
  39. I've used the Lazerlyte bullet and weighted dummy magazines in my 9mm Glocks for a couple years and it works great. My target is the LaserPET trainer, which is particularly good for working on draw time and accuracy. But with that system, I was racking after each shot so training only could go so far.

    Just recently bought the red/red SIRT and it's a huge upgrade. Modified it like all my Glocks with sanding, upgraded sights, and Talon grips. A little light (didn't splurge for the metal slide) but very close in feel to my 17. Trigger is fully adjustable but I'm happy with the slightly heavy factory setting; resistance training. Don't feel like the IR option is needed since I focus on front sight, not the dot. No light switch in my house is safe from double taps!

    Like the SIRT pistol so much that I have the SIRT AR bolt on order. Might get the Lazerapp software but Mac support is weak and overly expensive.
     
  40. Just an update on this.

    The Laserlyte Glock barrel works great with the Dryfiremag in my G19. I've also purchased two of the Laserlyte targets.

    The only issue with this setup is the laser fires on both trigger pull and trigger release.

    I've used this every night now for 30-40 minutes for the last 10 nights.

    Batteries are still fine. Everything is working great.
     
  41. I've got the LASRapp software (windows laptop, logitech camera on tripod) and the same SIRT pistol as yours. Love it! My discount code for the sw is VICEGRIPS, if you don't already have one.
     
  42. I have a sirt and think it's a great training tool. Although there is no recoil it allows you to work on mechanics. Driving from one target to the next instead of just repeated shot on one adds an element of sight tracking. Not like w/ recoil but worthwhile. Unlike any other dry fire (at least w a glock) it permits double taps. Since many say a good/fast double tap has basically 1 sight picture learning to work the trigger rapidly is another benefit, and lets face it for some its safer to push the limits of speed without live ammo the first few times. I've seen a few wild (but thankfully down range) shots when people first start pushing speed.