Non-Live Fire Laser Practice

Discussion in 'Tactics and Training' started by bowzette, Feb 20, 2017.

  1. bowzette

    bowzette

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    Is it worth/useful for training purposes to have a system that avoids racking the slide for each shot or not if there is no recoil and the "slide" is static? A reset trigger or SIRT provides repeated shots. But if there is no recoil are repeated shots useful? I shot a SIRT at a laser range which was "fun" but it was very easy to be accurate with repeated shots where there was no recoil. It is cheaper to buy a laser cartridge that will work in all my Glocks and easily adapted to my revolvers draw the gun, a real gun, and take a shot. I would not be engaging multiple targets but I would think, the draw, presentation and first shot is the most important.
    Or is it better to avoid the aggravation of racking the slide for each shot and have the ability to engage multiple targets even though there is no recoil? I just ordered a Dryfiremag as I think independent of the the visual laser shooting concept it has merit for me at this time.
     
  2. PieIsNice

    PieIsNice

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    There are actually multiple answers here: if you get a dryfiremag, you can't use a laser that relies on the firing pin to trigger. And the ones that work off sound don't necessarily work wih it, either.

    Yes, there is value in using a laser... IF you also get a laser target. If you are busy looking for where the laser hits, you are reinforcing a really bad habit.

    An automatic trigger reset has a lot of value for dry fire, and keeps you from racking that slide in practice.

    I believe the only laser that works with a dryfiremag is the laserlyte Glock replacement barrel. Though those are also pretty crappy; I've worn one out already.

    Dry fire ammo is free.
     
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  3. Elessar

    Elessar

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    It has been suggested that dry fire practice that includes racking the slide helps to instill muscle memory that could be needed in a stressful situation including reloads so you're better prepared.

    I have recently purchased an iTarget that includes a dry fire laser cartridge and while it's not the be all/end all of practice solutions, I can get a few minutes of practice when ever I want to descend into the basement and squeeze off a few. It's not for everyone, but it works pretty good for me.
     
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  4. John Biltz

    John Biltz

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    I have to rack the slide with mine. I think there is value in being able to fire multiple shots with multiple laser targets without having to rack the slide. Its not as good as live fire because of the lack of recoil of course but I think there is value.
     
  5. bowzette

    bowzette

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    I have done my usual OC research on this. I realize the Dryfiremag isn't going to work with a laser but will use it independently from the laser training. Also the Laser Ammo target looks interesting. If I have to rack the slide for each shot I don't see the advantage of the integrated three target set. If I have a reset trigger or SIRT the three target set would have value in spite of the cost :-(
    BTW I also am the "Will Rodgers of Pies"!
     
  6. bowzette

    bowzette

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    There is a way to get repeated cycling and recoil using a laser. Buy the KWA Glock simulated airsoft pistol and then add the Laser Ammo replacement barrel and laser or their rail laser attachment. These lasers work off vibration. But this gets really expensive around $450-$500. These are green gas blow back cycling slides which would shoot airsoft pellets or laser beam. In addition to the cost, dealing with a gas operated air pistol i suspect would end up being a pain. I doubt they would prove to be reliable but could be wrong. At any rate I've decided this isn't an option.
     
  7. thewitt

    thewitt

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    The Dryfiremag works with the laser barrel replacement from Laserlyte.
     
  8. bowzette

    bowzette

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    Thanks. But Amazon reviews were not very good. Concept sounds great but apparently not the execution.
     
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  9. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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    The purpose of dry fire is to develop mechanical, visual and cognitive shooting skills. In live fire, the fact that a gun is going off always occupies some of your attention.

    One of the keys to success in live fire is to learn to not be distracted by the muzzle blast and flip, and just shoot according to your mechanical ability. Dry fire is where you learn what that ability is, what it can look like in live fire, and how to improve it.

    Transitioning a pistol around target arrays to different types of sight pictures takes a lot of skill. Taking the blast and flip out of the equation lets you work just on that.

    If you get deeply enough into dry fire, you will eventually realize it encompasses almost everything in pistol shooting. The fact that bullets are coming out of the barrel and hitting targets is secondary. All the information you need to place those hits comes from dry fire skills.

    The only thing you really need live fire for is to learn how to optimally support the gun, and how to observe live sights.
     
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  10. thewitt

    thewitt

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    I talked to Laserlyte support about this. Those users did not turn off the unit after use, so it was listening for a sound constantly. I ordered one. I'll share my experience.
     
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  11. PieIsNice

    PieIsNice

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    That is not true, and I was one of those Amazon reviewers.

    Edit: Not true in what the gripes and user errors actually are, not that they didn't tell you that.
     
  12. wnr700

    wnr700

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    I always heard if you can master a revolver, you can shoot anything.

    For me, it's the penny on the barrel balancing act and hope it translates to every thing else.

    I also heard a guy talking about iTarget at a match yesterday... seems interesting but maybe another $100 down the rat hole?
     
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  13. bowzette

    bowzette

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    Dem Rats have lots of holes-lol. Well I'm broke. Bought a SIRT red laser with metal "slide", Laser Ammo three interactive targets and the Dryfiringmag. If I haven't squandered sufficient money one day I may get a Laserlyte Training Pistol Lt-Pre that inserts in the muzzle of any pistol or revolver .380-.45. With the Glocks and a LCP it is one shot and cycle the slide. I have two revolvers that you just keep pressing the trigger and firing the laser. Great solution for revolvers. Maybe I avoid that "rat hole", but it is saved in the Amazon "saved for later" cart :)
     
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  14. Paul53

    Paul53 You local friendly Skynet dealer

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    Sounds like one of the glocktalk brain trust could make a living inventing a better dry fire setup.
     
  15. bowzette

    bowzette

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    I agree Paul. I am assuming the the Dryfiremag has a reasonable "Glock like pull/reset". If so, Laser Ammo or Laserlyte should come up with a sound or vibration activated laser that works with the Mag. I suspect they are already close with their current products. But the real prize would be a gas blow back slide included with one of the laser cartridges with factory Glock like sights for $300-$350. The demand for airsoft pistols is huge especially in Asia. I would think the Glock like airsoft/laser hybrid would have a small market which no one would pursue with the Asian airsoft manufacturers unless Laserlyte or Laser Ammo took the lead.
     
  16. slackercruster

    slackercruster

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    OP...laser is genrally a pain in an auto. I use laser cartridges in a S&W. You can also get a plastic Glock lookalike laser gun.
     
  17. ScottR65

    ScottR65

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    Actually a point about the signature line. It's fake news. Our Constitution clearly established a representative republic - not a democracy, and a Supreme Court Justice would not utter such a false statement. If he did, please provide the case citation and I'll admit the error.
     
  18. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3

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    I have used one and the wife too, it did have the effect of dryfiring often. I had one inch squares from Post-it Notes all over the house. Improved her accuracy. Not perfect of course, but it is okay and I think worth it
    With ours you could rack while holding trigger down and then allow trigger reset and fire.
     
  19. bowzette

    bowzette

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    Yes a SIRT is on the way :)
     
  20. Jake Starr

    Jake Starr

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    I have used the Sure Strike Laser Bullet from Laser Ammo for years...beats all others and customer service is grand.