"No one should have known" you CCW'd — "Being the Gray Man"

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Sam Spade, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. Warp

    Warp ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    Has a regular person carrying a knife in his back pocket ever had that happen?

    knives are pretty damn easy to get your hands on, if some random person wants to walk up and stick a blade into your kidney, I don't think the lack of you having a knife in your back pocket is going to do a damn thing to stop them
     
  2. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    That is about as bright as saying, open carry a non-retention handgun in the small of your back and walk around in public-hoping for the best. Like not being shot with your own gun, getting stabbed without own knife because you put it back there for all to access and never have you're head on a swivel.

    Sounds like suicide by thug.
     
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  3. Warp

    Warp ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    You may not be aware, but the legal requirements for buying a knife are a little bit different than the legal requirements for buying a handgun.

    As such, stealing a pocket knife off of a person and then killing them with it is probably not how a person is going to go about obtaining a pocket knife.

    Again, if you have any examples, whatsoever, of this ever happening the US, by all means...
     
  4. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    there is a little thing taught in risk/crisis mitigation that is called "compounded liability" or compounded risk. Without going into a dissertation I will simply say that in a nut shell, you don't want to do any stupid things regardless of a belief that the potential damage is fleeting or presumed to be slight. Its a slippery slope where one less than prudent act is followed by another and another and another due to a casualness fostered by a lack of tragic consequences. Its a pattern that has been identified in many failed methods where life-safety and "protection" was the initial endeavor.

    With something that is as important as personal safety, you want to be a squared away individual and not a goofball. You don't walk around with weapons hanging out of your back pocket, its naïve, amaturistic and indifferent to common sense. I would not want to project such a demeanor in public. Every little bit counts.
     
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  5. Warp

    Warp ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    I'd say it is naieve, amaturistic, and indifferent to common sense to walk around with a pocket knife clip visible at all in any pocket in public if you are concerned that a person may walk up to you, take the knife out of your pocket, and attempt to kill you with it. Front pocket is unlikely to make a difference, and I"ll wager that the person who can and would do that with a pocket knife in your back pocket can and would do that from behind with a pocket knife in your front pocket
     
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  6. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    Most human beings innately, instinctively and knowingly accept 180 degrees as a "predators arc".. which means anything that occurs within 180 degrees will likely be detected and responded to. Secreted attacks and other subterfuge will commonly occur somewhere outside this arc and more often when the target is challenging. The issue of a weapon hanging out of your back pocket being used against you is minimal vs the temptation and opportunity that should never have existed to begin with. Avoiding the hostile contact no matter if it is theft related, attempted theft or a physical attack is more important than the absolute measurement of actual damage or the absolute measurement of the risk in general. If you don't want to be on someone's radar, don't wave a flag. Its not rocket science.

    I think the sentiment here is to simply put a little effort into having more control over an obvious weapon as opposed to less. I am surprised that it is such a hard concept to accept.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  7. Warp

    Warp ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    I guess I haven't ever lived or resided somewhere that having a pocket knife clipped to your pocket constituted waiving a target flag, so I have a hard time realizing that having a pocket knife makes you a target for violent attack. It's kind of expected attire.
     
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  8. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    back pocket.. and you miss the point entirely. You are seemingly trying to parcel out tid bits of what I said to form some sort of objection. I wont debate that way.. good luck
     
  9. 'Ol Grandad

    'Ol Grandad Director of civil unrest

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    I've thought the same way for years. I want to be invisible. Blend in. Concealed.
     
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  10. JohnnyE

    JohnnyE

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    Everyone needs to read Sun Tzu's Art of War. As he counsels, when near, appear far away, when organized, appear disorganized...warfare is the art of deception.
     
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  11. Steven Monk

    Steven Monk Glock17er

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    If the bad guys and LEOs in my very rural community went to watching for all the people wearing camo, BDUs, and firearm related T-shirts, then they'd be "making" at least 60% of the customers seen in Walmart. So, it depends on what the local culture is as to whether or not you stand out by what you're wearing.
     
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  12. bayshtyshorty

    bayshtyshorty

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    Whats the big deal about being made? I've been carrying since 2007 and in the last 11 years i have only ever had 1 individual say something. I reached too high and a grocery store manager freaked out and told me to leave, but a letter to corporate got him fired and myself invited back into the store with a generously loaded gift card...but back when i was 21, i carried a g23 iwb, these days its a more than likely an lcp or g42 in my pocket in the cheapest of cheap uncle mikes pocket holsters i can find. I put it in my pocket when i get dressed and then literally forget it is there for the entire day, so i dont walk different, talk different, carry myself different, or touch it. Both options are virtually invisible until crouching down. So my question is this: you are walking thru the mall and someone "makes" you....so what? Most of how you carry is going to be directly correlated to "what" you carry. After all these years of no longer carrying .40's and .45's anymore, i can proudly say i and no longer a sufferer of the "bigger dink" complex. I started shooting .380 after my wife started shooting and found it to be much less expensive to buy the guns, buy the ammo, and ultimately train with. I'll get more effective shots on target faster with my .380's than most will with larger calibers (including myself). So whats the deal? I told you what my morning routine was...if I crouch down and someone looks, what are the odds that they will ask? Almost zero. And if they do, i'd probably say no anyway. So that being said I personally couldnt give even half a damn what people notice about me or even less what they think, I'm going to do me and you can do you, and i live way happier that way. :)
     
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  13. GlockLivesMattr

    GlockLivesMattr

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    I don't give a damn if people point out I'm carrying.

    I don't wear a photographers vest, however I do wear pants and I wear clothes that will let me best handle a defensive situation if the need ever arises. Tactical Bright flashlight, Glock 17, extra mags, pocket knife. Concealed is concealed.

    Il take being prepared over being spotted by an LEO I'm carrying. LEOs in my area encourage ccw, never had a problem with them. Always positive. Always shoot the **** with LEOs about gun stuff anyways.

    No criminal is going to be looking to start a fight with a ccw. They want easy targets. Don't make yourself an easy target and you won't be targeted.
     
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  14. bayshtyshorty

    bayshtyshorty

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    Honestly it seems like way too many people are putting way too mich thought into this. Have any of you ever had to use a firearm to defend yourself? Because I have, but it was in an apartment and not a ccw situation. If you have not, then you probably have all of these pre-conceived notions of how its going to go down with you being the hero. The truth is, unless they shoot you first, you'll be leaving in handcuffs, if they do, you'll be leaving in either an ambulance or a black van. My version of how it goes down these days is this: if i'm grabbing a pepsi out of the cooler and a robber walks into the gas station to rob the joint and he HASNT noticed me behind the rack of cheetos, then i'll be hanging out behind the cheetos for another 10 seconds...could i legally step out and put five rounds in his back? Yes. But i wont for a number of reasons. 1: too much to go wrong, i could hit an unintended target. 2: it may pass through. 3: i know what it feels like to shoot a human being and no matter how bad a** you think you are, it WILL be the worst day of your life. Heck i even have tactical training under my belt because after you've learned how to shoot a gun, you still dont know how to fight with one. Bottom line is, dont over think it...you'll probably never have to use it, and if you ever do, then you will see it in a whole new light. You will have re-affirmed the age old saying that its better to have it and not need it, but your version of needing it will be a lot different, you will literally do anything in your power to NOT shoot the next theoretical bad guy. These days there is no way in (hail) that i would use my firearm unless there was a real possibility that myself or my wife may be killed in this situation, or if i were lucky enough to get an easy shot on the perpetrator of a mass shooting. I sincerely hope nobody here knows, or ever finds out what that feels like.
     
  15. bayshtyshorty

    bayshtyshorty

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    Also, think about how much time and money i have saved by not buying all that "tacticool" stuff! That pair of 5.11 pants is really awesome, but so is 2-100 packs of ammo! Hahahaha!
     
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  16. GlockLivesMattr

    GlockLivesMattr

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  17. bayshtyshorty

    bayshtyshorty

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    I agree that the lcp is near impossible to see, but more importantly, it is NOT a hindrance in my daily life. I could care less about printing and all that, i have it just in case i need it, but my "carry routine" is a simple as making sure a round is chambered and then putting it in my pocket, which a lot easier than having a big gun, tac light, knife, vest, 300 feet of rope, and all the other crazyness that other people's morning song amd dance consists of lol
     
  18. Warp

    Warp ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    If one person said something, some dozens or hundreds probably noticed. Few people will say anything. At that point, it's all about who notices, and when.

    If you want less expensive ammo, that is legitimate for self defense, 9mm > .380. Just sayin'

    Chances are that when people 'make' you it's a non-issue, as you have discovered. In the mall example it depends on who 'makes' you...


    I figured it wouldn't take long. I observed this yesterday, in a staffed business with many conspicuously posted "NO WEAPONS" signs. I don't think folks in GA actually consciously even notice pocket knives. Or don't care? At any rate, as usual, nobody killed this guy or otherwise said anything at all for the 1.5+ hours we were both there

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    Just takes him staring off into space, to become a victim really fast. He goes out, takes a wrong turn into a crap neighborhood. He gets shoved and the knife grabbed, stabbed several times and off with his wallet why he bleeds out and no one cares. Why ask for a potential problem, when clips just as easily in the front pocket.

    To me, it looks like the grown up version of the 'Kick me Sign' Only it says, 'Stab me'
     
  20. Warp

    Warp ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    Goes out, takes a wrong turn, gets out of his car, starts walking around a bad neighborhood? lol we're really getting into this totally random hypothetical based on nothing, today, eh?

    Again, if all that is going to happen and somebody is going to walk up, take the pocket knife out of his pocket, and stab him with it (because apparently they can't get a pocket knife of their own, I guess?), they can do it with the front pocket too (and from behind at that)


    I guess we are different people, I don't start thinking about slicing people up and leaving them for dead because they have a pocket knife clip showing

    A quick glance around at the fact that nobody can point to that EVER happening would indicate few people go around doing this.
     
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