No More CPR

Discussion in 'Firefighter/EMS Talk' started by WT, Apr 13, 2020.

  1. WT

    WT Millennium Member

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    As NJ hospitals struggle with a growing number of workers getting sick or forced into quarantine, several hospitals have established Do Not Attempt Resuscitation (DNAR) policies. They aim to mitigate the transmission risks inherent in lifesaving measures, such as CPR and intubation when patients stop breathing or their hearts cease beating.

    All patients who have either tested positive for COVID-19 or are suspected of being infected are placed on a “no CPR” list. Because the coronavirus is highly contagious, doctors performing lifesaving tactics can be especially susceptible.

    Recent legislation provides doctors, nurses, and other health personnel with improved protection against civil suits involving CV patients.

    https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020...virus-patients-to-protect-doctors-nurses.html
     
  2. Lt. Donn

    Lt. Donn PSO Survivor. currently in NW Georgia

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    IDK...I am torn on this one...Personally, I would not want to justify allowing someone to expire If I thought they were able to be saved...but if they are febrile and already compromised...maybe...I don't know...like I said I'm torn...I guess I would have to take every case as it comes, and pray for guidance
     

  3. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    I find it a little hard to believe that doctors and nurses in hospitals are doing CPR by putting their mouth on the patient's mouth. Seriously?
     
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  4. Terry G

    Terry G

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    Federal LEO's are furnished with belt carried devices that allow CPR without fear of infection, your saying Medical Staff aren't?
     
  5. DocCasualty

    DocCasualty Wolverine

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    Bagging and intubation are major contributors to aerosolization. I haven’t seen it mentioned but would guess chest compressions without a cuffed ETT would also.
     
  6. Grabbrass

    Grabbrass

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    I thought the whole 'mouth-to-mouth' thing was no longer part of the official CPR regimen anyway. ??

    That's not really what it's about, anyway. People with an infectious disease are infectious. Who knew?
     
  7. rangerhgm

    rangerhgm NRA Member

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    Tough nut to crack

    I see the risk of CPR/mouth to mouth....BUT on the other hand could you just stand there and watch someone expire (from being in an accident as an example) when you could have possibly saved them.

    As I said.....this is a tough one
     
  8. Terry G

    Terry G

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    Good way to get fired!
     
  9. powernoodle

    powernoodle

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  10. DocCasualty

    DocCasualty Wolverine

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    Death.
     
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  11. BGDaddy

    BGDaddy Leg Humper

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    Never.

    But intubating a patient aerosols the virus and makes it much easier to spread. Also, codes in a hospital are all hands on deck, very quickly. PPE is likely not being utilized adequately in a lot of these cases.

    That being said, I'm torn also.
     
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  12. nikerret

    nikerret Mr. Awesome

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    Frankly, I have a terrible record of bringing back the dead. Best I ever got was the patient a few days, but they didn’t know it. I have seen one full recovery CPR, in my years of public safety, so I know it IS possible (at least one time).
     
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  13. BGDaddy

    BGDaddy Leg Humper

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    It depends on why they coded. In the cardiovascular pulmonary ICU where I usually work, we save a very high percentage of them.

    But in a medical ICU where they have tons of co-morbidities, sepsis, multiple organ failure, etc., it's tough. By the time they crash, there is usually no bringing them back.
     
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  14. tool-time

    tool-time

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    The death panels have begun
     
  15. rangerhgm

    rangerhgm NRA Member

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    Agree
     
  16. Redeemed

    Redeemed

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    Not necessarily, If it’s per protocol.
    The agencies I was with was pretty much no CPR on trauma victims.
     
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  17. BGDaddy

    BGDaddy Leg Humper

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    Yup. If someone arrests from a trauma, you aren't gonna save them in the field. Probably not even in the O.R.
     
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  18. Quickling

    Quickling

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    Another thing to consider is that if these are COVID patients, they are most likely on a covid floor, with multiple intubated patients on vents and sedative drips to maintain the tube. Certain drips require more frequent vitals checks.

    As someone already pointed out, a code blue will empty an area as everyone rushes in to help. Therefore those nurses who had to manage their patients every 5 minutes are now no longer available as they work a code for 20+ minutes.

    Under normal circumstances these kinds of "everyone is a DNR" protocols wouldn't happen, but during a full blown pandemic we are all operating under MCI triage protocols due to high patient volumes with limited providers.
     
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  19. Blanton

    Blanton

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    I believe it's possible to do rescue breathing through surgical masks or other cloth barriers. Morally it would be a very tough decision not to attempt in all but the most hopeless of victims
     
  20. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    My thinking was that in a hospital they use resuscitators with a mask and pump, rather than blowing into somebody's mouth with their mouths. As far as I know, even police and EMTs in the field use a resuscitator mask, as a minimum.
     
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