No Bailout For Cruise Lines

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Bill Keith, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. Bill Keith

    Bill Keith

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  2. Ranger357

    Ranger357 Just pixels

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    I’m with ya, but despite avoiding regulations and not paying taxes, I’ll bet they have lots more lobbyist than many who do.
     
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  3. Hicksville Kid

    Hicksville Kid

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    Also the crews only have a small percentage of Americans in their crews. Not a big voting block.
     
  4. faawrenchbndr

    faawrenchbndr CLM

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    Screw the cruise lines........want American money, register the boat in America
     
  5. canis latrans

    canis latrans

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    make sure we get a credit card number....we can send them a bill when it's all over.
     
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  6. BOOSTED12A

    BOOSTED12A

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    It's a scan anyway. Yeah the Cruse Is only 1k for a couple but you spend 2k on drinks plus the crap you buy on shore
     
  7. FullClip

    FullClip Native Mainiac CLM

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    Had a buddy who grabbed a job on an American flagged cruise ship out of Hawaii when he got out of Maine Maritime Academy thinking it would be a great gig. He later told me all he did was work on toilets most of the time.
    I was glad to be on a tanker with only about 30 people on board.
    The USA is really screwed now with it's lack of shipping capacity of any kind.
     
  8. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Is it any different than American companies that make and build things outside the U.S.?
     
  9. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Is shipping a problem?
     
  10. nmk

    nmk

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    Apple makes cringe.
     
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  11. FullClip

    FullClip Native Mainiac CLM

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    The US has hardly any tankers or freighters in the fleet anymore. At the beginning of the first Gulf War there was a mad scramble to get some of the old mothballed vessels going again...now most of those old ships are gone. We'd be screwed if we needed to transport anything on our own.

    Here is an article that's a couple years old...less than 100 ships now.

    https://taskandpurpose.com/analysis/us-mercant-marine-fleet-military

    The US Merchant Marine Fleet Is Dying — And It May Hurt America's Ability To Wage War Abroad
    TIM JOHNSON, MCCLATCHY WASHINGTON BUREAU
    MAY 15, 2018 7:30 AM EDT

    The once-mighty U.S. Merchant Marine fleet has nearly collapsed under the weight of high labor costs, zigzagging federal policies and intense competition from abroad, damaging America’s position as the only country in the world able to supply and sustain a long-distance war.

    The U.S. Merchant Marine has declined from 1,288 international trading vessels in 1951 to 81 today.

    “It’s a matter of national security,” said Maritime Administration chief Mark H. Buzby, a retired Navy rear admiral.

    The Merchant Marine is a fleet of U.S. ships that carries cargo during peacetime and becomes an auxiliary of the Defense Department during wartime to deliver troops and supplies to conflict zones. The Navy itself does not have enough ships to handle a large-scale supply mission on its own and has relied in almost every conflict on the Merchant Marine.

    “I tell people we’re kind of on the ragged edge here of our ability to conduct a large-scale sea-lift operation to move our combat forces overseas. Even in an uncontested environment, we would be challenged,” Buzby said.

    An Air Force general warned Congress last month that the Pentagon might have to turn to foreign vessels to mobilize equipment, just as it did in the 1991 Gulf War mobilization. But in that war, the crews of 13 of the 192 foreign-flagged vessels carrying cargo rebelled and forced their ships away from the war zone.

    “If the fleet continues to lose ships, a lengthy, mass deployment on the scale of Desert Shield/Desert Storm could eventually require U.S. forces to rely on foreign-flagged ships for sustainment,” Air Force Gen. Darren W. McDew, head of the U.S. Transportation Command, told a Senate panel April 10.

    McDew said the dwindling Merchant Marine fleet, along with an aging Navy transport fleet, “threatens our ability to meet national security requirements.”

    U.S. troops stationed in the Middle East and Afghanistan still receive much of their supplies via U.S. flag vessels. Despite the usage of heavy lift aircraft, large oceangoing vessels remain crucial to military mobility in the 21st century.

    Vessels flying the flags of places like Liberia, Panama and the Marshall Islands usually have smaller multinational crews that stay at sea for longer periods, even as the value of the cargo aboard their ships — sometimes surpassing 20,000 containers — grows ever higher. U.S. flagships have more robust crews — a minimum of 22 — and all mariners take an oath of allegiance to the United States.

    Foreign crews shouldn’t be allowed near armaments and supplies the Pentagon uses in fighting wars, Buzby said.

    “They could sabotage equipment or have access to classified equipment and systems,” Buzby said. Or “just be slow or nonexistent about delivering it.”

    Related: Mattis Is Pushing The Navy To A Brand New Fleet Strategy »

    One member of Congress described the shortfall in merchant ships as a weak flank in the nation’s defense posture, and referred to one of the epic battles from World War II, saying it would have been a lost cause in today’s conditions.

    “It’s debatable whether the Marines, if they were to land on the shores of Guadalcanal, would they be able to have supplies for the second month? The answer is, probably not,” said Rep. John Garamendi, a California Democrat and the ranking member of a House Transportation subcommittee that deals with maritime issues.

    Crises over the U.S. Merchant Marine date as far back as the Civil War when the North rushed to charter vessels to help blockade Southern ports. Decades later, chaotic scenes unfolded at the port of Tampa in the run-up to the 1898 Spanish-American War as authorities tried feverishly to charter vessels to transport Col. Theodore Roosevelt and his 25,000 Rough Riders to Cuba. In the end, only 16,000 men would fit aboard the limited vessels.

    Less than two decades later, the U.S. government found itself with little means to transport an expeditionary force to Europe in World War I, and “had to requisition, scavenge and steal to get the vessels,” said Salvatore Mercogliano, a maritime historian at Campbell University in North Carolina.

    The ships also often face grave danger without the armaments to protect themselves or their cargo. By the end of World War II, 1,554 U.S. vessels lay at the bottom of the ocean, many of them sunk by German U-boats. Some 9,500 merchant died, a rate of casualty that rivaled that of U.S. Marines for the early part of the war. After the wartime buildup, the U.S. boasted the largest Navy and Merchant Marine fleet in the world.
     
  12. mike from st pe

    mike from st pe

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    How many of non-Americans are voting ?
     
  13. Jon_R

    Jon_R

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    I am okay not doing cruise industry. I don't see it as critical and they are not American companies. It will hit FL hard if they fail or come back real slow but it is what it is. I am okay not dropping money on theme parks to as they are not critical. Having said that I am certain money will be spent on non critical industries.
     
  14. Mr Meeseeks

    Mr Meeseeks

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    Tax exempt puke vessels designed to separate the vulnerable from their money. Like the payday lenders of the travel industry.

    Let em burn.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
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  15. Hicksville Kid

    Hicksville Kid

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    I saw an article that stated that only 4% of cruise crews were Americans. No word on how many of them vote.
     
  16. berto62

    berto62

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    I remember when the training ship State of Maine would stop at Port Canaveral, they would bring all the students down to Cocoa Beach to drink in the bars. They were some pretty good people
     
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  17. J. Gambolputty

    J. Gambolputty

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    I saw a documentary that implied that the ships Captain, Purser, Cruise Director, Doctor and Bartender are required to be Americans.
     
  18. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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    Mee'ks is swinging hard these days.
     
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  19. GT4494

    GT4494

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    The indirect millions of dollars that the cruise ships bring into Miami, Port Canaveral, Charleston, etc. will tend to disagree that the cruise lines don't help America. Even if they aren't flagged here, have no crews from here or get provisions here..

    Just saying....
     
  20. RenoF250

    RenoF250

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    Wow, lots of cruise hate. I agree with no bailout but there is nothing wrong with cruises. I have been on one and would like to go again. We had a great time and great scenery. Did not catch anything. Nothing wrong with it at all. Did not witness any walmart behavior.