Nice complete pencil barrel (ak) 17 on Broker

Discussion in 'Glock Collector's Club' started by geefal, Sep 24, 2018.

  1. geefal

    geefal

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    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/786754109

    (Not my listing, not something I am bidding on)

    > Determined that this, while a nice setup, is a "put together set" manual is not correct, and the box, while correct, "may" not be original to the gun <



    While it could easily go for over his asking price, I think he has started a bit high and may keep some people from getting into the auction. Will be interesting to watch though as many times I have seen something listed for a starting bid of say $2000 and no one bids. Next go round they start it at $1 and no reserve and it ends at $3000 (or some such). So auctions are funny critters like that. Think he would have done better with a lower start and getting people going on it.

    But. Nice package if your looking for one.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  2. Glockaholics

    Glockaholics

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    A couple things stand out in my opinion. It’s hard to tell but does not look like the correct date on the manual and the case label just happens to be damaged where the serial number is located. If it hadn’t been for those 2 items it would have been bought at 6am this morning. Just seems like he matched up a case and manual to the pistol....however I could be completely wrong. Maybe somebody else can make out the pics better.
     
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  3. geefal

    geefal

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    I blew up the date and I think you are right on the manual, looks like Feb of 87 . I hadn't seen that right off, good catch.

    And your right, the label is conveniently "buggered up" right over the serial.

    Devils in the details on this one
     
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  4. Marcus99

    Marcus99

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    I have an all-original pencil barrel AK-prefix with a serial quite close to the seller's. Unfortunately mine lacks the matching box and paperwork, however I do have an original mag. I've done a lot of research into these and regarding the aforementioned listing, In my opinion...

    - The manual is too late and is not original
    - The mags *may* be later than original as they appear to lack the golden hue present on many of the earliest of Glock mags.
    - I've been unable to notice a congruity for early loaders, so I can't speculate there.
    - The box is likely not matching nor original. The AK prefix Glocks were imported into the U.S. on February 21, 1986 (Glock told me this per their records.) I do not believe these very early Glocks had the "Best in the Market" label at that time.
    - The internals look original and correct.

    Regardless of the accessories, it is still a very rare, collectable and valuable Glock.
     
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  5. OXMYX

    OXMYX

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    Rare. The most overused word on Gunbroker.
     
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  6. geefal

    geefal

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    I don't disagree, but by your comment you would seem to imply that pencil barrel Glocks are common? It is truly a personal thing where a person sets the bar for an item to be rare, so I am curious, what would constitute "rare" in your opinion? Just curious.
     
  7. glockhoarder

    glockhoarder

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    Perhaps. However, in the case of an AK PB gun it's correctly used.
     
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  8. glockhoarder

    glockhoarder

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    I have to run out so I don't have time to go to the safe now.

    I have an AK gun which, oddly, came with the original mags, loader, brush, lower box w/label but non-original lid and no manual. So, while I can compare w/the listed gun on everything but the top and manual. (I'll note that while my gun is not totally complete is it all original, hardly ever fired and I got it about 2 years ago for $700ish. So, I was and am very happy w/that one!!).

    I do have an AL gun with is totally complete and original. I'll take a look at that one later and will post pics of it's manual, box top, etc.

    The AKs were imported in Feb 86 and the ALs in March 86 so the AL should give us a good idea of what's original w/the AK guns.
     
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  9. OXMYX

    OXMYX

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    I thought Pythons were RARE until they became expensive, then everybody and his brother had their junk refinished with fake boxes and paperwork and listed on GB as new.
     
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  10. glockhoarder

    glockhoarder

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    I think that, as you allude to, rare is frequently used in a the relative sense of supply and demand. There are a lot of Pythons with some of course being truly rare. However, it's supply and demand so many Pythons are listed as "rare" despite that quite a few of that model may exist.

    Rare in it's pure form of course means "rare". I think that it's fair to say that pencil barrel Glocks are rare. Only a few thousand were imported. Many of them have been lost over the 30 + years since they were imported. Thus, the surviving numbers are low.

    Then there is extremely rare such as a Gen 1 19 of which perhaps 20 or so are known to exist between museums and private collections.

    Anyway, I agree with your original point that "rare" is way overused. However, in this case, I think that it's accurate.
     
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  11. glockhoarder

    glockhoarder

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    Hey Guys,

    Below please find some pics of my 100% original, seemingly un-fired (other than at the factory of course) totally complete AL PB gun. It was imported one month after the AK guns. So, I'd expect that the AK guns would have had identical box, accessories, manual, etc. I'd certainly expect that the AK guns would not have newer items as does the one in the auction.

    Unfortunately, the label is not in great shape. However, the AL prefix is still there albeit very lightly.

    IMG_20180924_220112.jpg IMG_20180924_220115.jpg IMG_20180924_220146.jpg IMG_20180924_220208.jpg IMG_20180924_220128.jpg IMG_20180924_220021.jpg IMG_20180924_220000.jpg IMG_20180924_215920.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  12. glockhoarder

    glockhoarder

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    A few more....

    IMG_20180924_215949.jpg IMG_20180924_215937.jpg IMG_20180924_215932.jpg IMG_20180924_215923.jpg

    I hope that you all find the pics helpful.
     
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  13. glockhoarder

    glockhoarder

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    Totally agree!!
     
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  14. Marcus99

    Marcus99

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    I'd like to clarify what I said earlier, especially in light of Ron's pictures. I believe, in my opinion, that the lid is not original but instead is from a later Glock tupperware box. The box itself, however, I believe is most likely original to the gun despite lacking proof of matching. The style of label that was used on the very early Glocks from my observations was only used on the very early Glocks, i.e. that descended unnecessary blank area that sits below the angled cut on the base of the box was done away with very early on in Glock production from what I've seen. So, despite the fact that the label is torn in the area of the serial number, in all liklihood that box is still probably original to the gun as very few of them were made.

    It's also quite possible that were that label provided for closer inspection that one or several characters of the serial could be discerned, removing almost all doubt of it's authenticity.
     
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  15. WheelsUp

    WheelsUp Propaganda Dissemination Specialist

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    What is a "pencil barrel?"

    Any chance someone would post a picture of a "Pencil barrel" and a later barrel for comparison?
     
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  16. patcrad

    patcrad

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    My knowledge of boxes, labels, stickers and lids has always shown that Glock has been consistently inconsistent in some aspects. I have boxes with "Best in Market" stickers on very early Gen 1's. I know longtime commercial gun dealers that were Glock reps back in the day and described "old stock" Gen 1's still in inventory, new and unsold at the time, getting "Best In" stickers added to the box lids when Glock sent the stickers out for advertisement. The AK listed on GB has a correctly dimensioned label (3.4CM X 10.2CM) for the AK series. There is a "5" visible in what appears to be the middle digit of three number serial number, which partially matches with the pistol. Later numbered labels were 2.5CM X 10.2CM and are generally in better shape as they didn't ride on the bottom of the box. I believe a more detailed photo would be able to confirm more numbers or even a positive match.
     
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  17. glockhoarder

    glockhoarder

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    Great info! Thanks!!!

    I never knew that about the labels. I thought that they came from Glock w/the labels.

    I've long wondered which SN prefixes had the '86 labels.

    My AL gun does not have an 86 label. If they were sent to the dealers then inconsistent labeling would make sense.
     
  18. glockhoarder

    glockhoarder

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    Pencil barrel refers to early Gen 1 Glock 17s with SN prefix AM and earlier. Being that AM guns were not imported into the US the latest PB guns in the US are AL.

    The external barrel diameter is slightly less than later barrels. Photo 7 in the GB ad linked to in the OPs first post shows the PB and non-PB side by side.

    The difference is not that obvious unless you compare them side by side.

    A standard barrel won't fit through the hole of a PB slide.

    While the PB guns were shunned once the standard barrel guns came out in the 80s, they now carry a substantial premium on the collector market.

    Of note, the only PB guns were G17s. The Gen 1 19 started with AN (the only other G1 19 prefix being DN) and were non-PB barrels. There are also no PB 18s or Ls.
     
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  19. WheelsUp

    WheelsUp Propaganda Dissemination Specialist

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    Cool. Thanks!
     
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  20. glockhoarder

    glockhoarder

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    Most welcome. Great to have you on the collector forum.
     
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