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*NF* Shootings' aftermaths and lessons

320 Views 8 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  SPDSNYPR
Apparently, one of our members has been in an OIS. Reports on CT say he's fine.


So here's a thread, away from the general population, to discus what you learned in the aftermath of a shooting or similar.
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· Crazy CO
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I never had a shooting, myself. Been close a time or two. I have been involved in other serious use of force incidents. It's always tell it like it is, as it's on camera anyway, and you want to be honest without being stupid about it. In other words, just the facts, nothing but the facts, and no personal comments. It has gotten me through these things a lot better than anything else I can think of, besides the hand of God being in things.
 

· Super Moderator
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Hack;12164921 said:
... besides the hand of God being in things.
I've been there too many times. Tracer rounds so close you can smell them...no where to hide, so you attack back. Sure, training and practice helps. But, there are times, after it is over, when you know you are not that good.

After one such time, after reaching a safe area, the pilot and I realized we both had hands and feet on the controls. We looked at each other, the pilot said, "You know we've got someone else in this cockpit don't you. Neither one of us really flew this plane out of that hellstorm." "I know," was my only response. When I released the yoke, my hands started shaking. But then we turned around and went back to get the bad guys.

PROSOUTH, my prayers are with you.
 

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Here is another account...


Rutherford man shot after pointing handgun at deputies

By: Lisa Marchesoni
Posted: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:00 pm

Coffee County sheriff’s deputies killed a Rutherford County man after he pointed a 9mm handgun at them following a pursuit Monday morning on Interstate 24 near Manchester, the sheriff said.

Terry Cohen Meadors, 50, of Alford Road off Sulphur Springs Road died immediately at the scene of the shooting near the Highway 41 exit off I-24 in Manchester, said Coffee County Sheriff Steve Graves.

Meadors’ ex-wife called Coffee County 911 about 6:30 a.m. to report Meadors followed her on I-24 southeast of Manchester even though she had an order of protection against him, the sheriff said. The ex-wife was scared and warned Meadows carried firearms.

Deputies located Meadows and deployed stop sticks several times but he avoided the sticks. He swerved into the median toward a Manchester Police officer. The officer shot the tire out of Meadors’ truck.

About one mile later, Meadors pulled over on the side of the interstate with three sheriff’s deputies about 15 feet behind him.

“He just opened the door, stepped out and pointed a 9mm directly at the deputies,” Graves said. “They fired through the windshields. I don’t think he ever got a round off. He was waiting for them to get out of the patrol car. This was a case when their training paid off.”

The deputies followed training by remaining inside their cars, he said.

“I hate a life had to be taken but it wasn’t one of the officers,” Graves said.

None of the deputies had been involved in a shooting before.

“I’m sure it’s playing on them but they did what they had to do or they would have been hurt,” Graves said.

The shooting was videotaped from cameras inside the patrol cars. District Attorney’s Investigator Billy Cook and the Tennessee Highway Patrol’s Critical Incident Response Team are investigating.

Meadors’ ex-wife also had obtained arrest warrants earlier charging him with vandalism and harassment.

A check of his criminal history showed Meadors was arrested multiple times on charges of aggravated assault and assault.

Rutherford County Circuit Court records showed he was sentenced for two years in the state penitentiary for criminal attempt of kidnapping in 1992. He was convicted of simple assault and vandalism twice in 1994. He pleaded guilty to reckless endangerment and assault in 1996, serving 90 days of a two-year sentence.

http://www.murfreesboropost.com/news.php?viewStory=15100
 

· Super Moderator
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
There's a huge range of "normal" after such. Different bodies have different ways of burning off the adrenaline. Puking is normal. So is not puking. So is talking a mile a minute, or getting the shakes, or the inability to sit still. Most people don't go through enough of these to see the wide range of normal. So that's the first lesson, I guess: Don't rag on someone who's reacting differently than you do. Don't rag on yourself if you're reacting differently than what some guy told you.

I'm really going to need to think about what else I want to write, and how I want to package it.
 

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I guess like most in this line of work, I've often thought about what it would be like to pull the trigger on another human. Not in a war zone, as that is a different mindset (or so I've gathered from talking to numerous combat vets), but to kill a person "right there" in front of you, as it were.

Combat seems to be more about dehumanizing the combatants, and instead of being a case of an individual shooting another one, it appears to be more a case of "servicing targets". Again, never been there, don't wanna be there. If I did, I'd have signed up when I was 17, instead of chasing that piece of ass around high school.

Anyway, the closest I've come to anything near shooting a person, was shooting a dog that was attacking me/my dogs. No biggie, as I hunt all the time. I'm sure it doesn't begin to compare. The point of all this rambling is, I "know" I can pull the trigger. I'd hang the gunbelt up if I felt I couldn't. To not be able to use deadly force when necessary in this line of work means you, or someone else innocent, will die. That's not the issue. I just don't know how'd I react. The political reality in my community, is that I was be run through the wringer, and scrutinized beyond belief, especially were I to shoot someone with a bit more melanin in them. We had just such an incident occur a few years back, and I've repeatedly mentioned it on this site. There are fewer community agitators here now, since the loudest died a natural death, and his heir apparent isn't as vocal, but the fact remains that an officer can surely face a manslaughter case for defending himself.

So, that factors in to the equation, right or wrong. Again, I know I can pull the trigger, but what happens next? Honestly, I think I'd be miserable for weeks, months, maybe even years. Not because I killed someone, but because it put my family and me in the spotlight. I didn't pick acreage in the middle of nowhere to retire to, because I like being around people. And, as you guys know, the spotlight is generally operated by people who have an agenda.

Puking, the ****s, all that stuff...I'm sure I'd have it. I can handle stress pretty well, but that's a bit much...I'd be worried about my job, my finances (I work OT/off duty to pay bills...hard to do that on admin leave), and how seeing Daddy on the news for killing someone would affect my kids. I don't think it would be a big deal, but you never know....




Honestly, there's only one set of circumstances that I absolutely know I could pull the trigger, and not worry about ANY consequences at all...**** with my kids, and you'll die. Slowly, if I can work it out (the movie Saw has nothing on what I have planned for a ****er that messes with my kids), but more than likely, I'd only get time for a shot. Screw with the kids, and you'll die. May take a while, if they get to you before I do...but, I'll get you in the end. I know I can pull the trigger on someone like that without losing a minute's sleep. Just thinking about it gets me worked up....as I'm sure it does with you guys.

So, if you guys don't mind me asking...what the hell goes thru your head afterwards. Not during, as I'd bet that's pretty much the same for all of us: Survive, and stop this assclown...but afterwards....I know at least two people who've done it here locally, but it's not something you bring up in casual conversation. I'm hesitant to bring it up in here, but I figured that's what the thread was for. If not, disregard the last, and continue on with the thread.

And, if you're reading this, Prosouth...good job, and may you be back to work as quickly as you need to be. Hope all goes well with you, and the offer of assistance still applies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
wprebeck;12166650 said:
So, if you guys don't mind me asking...what the hell goes thru your head afterwards. Not during, as I'd bet that's pretty much the same for all of us: Survive, and stop this assclown...but afterwards....I know at least two people who've done it here locally, but it's not something you bring up in casual conversation. I'm hesitant to bring it up in here, but I figured that's what the thread was for. If not, disregard the last, and continue on with the thread.
Yah, it's something better suited for beer discussion.

I've shot more than one man. I've had my partner shot and more. As a firearms instructor, I've been privileged to review a lot and talk to many other guys who've been in the suck.

To start with, training rules. For Christ's sake, if you have any training responsibility, train people right. I talked with two guys who were faced with a guy and a big-ass knife. They both hesitated, because they thought they'd be in trouble. Two of them, one of him, "only" a knife. They shot him, but nearly too late.

Immediately afterwards, training still rules. Did I hit him, did it work, does he have friends, am I alright? Boxes all checked, now, what do I need to do to secure the scene/render aid/get the bosses rolling? As it should be.

Afterwards some more...it depends on mindset and how you process information. I know one high-speed type who solved the problem and moved on right away. I know of another guy, who posts here by the nic "Sam Spade", who's kinda analytical and such. Stayed awake for hours, replaying scenes, looking for lessons. Once I knew that I'd learned what there was, I slept like a baby and never worried. I know of another guy who wasn't on top of his game, got stupid after a reasonable shoot, and ended up getting medicalled out. Prep now, in a manner that fits your natural style.

My advice is to listen to yourself. If you're hungry, eat. If you're tired, sleep. If you're all wound up, work out. If you need to talk, talk to someone where privilege attaches. AT ALL COSTS, AVOID LIQUOR AND THE LIKE. Let your body and mind take those three days to get back into balance.

Guys, if I need to shut up, tell me so.
 

· Zippy's Friend.
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Nah . . . . all good. Feel free to talk.

I was the anylitical type. I didn't sleep, and was directly ordered not to talk to anyone at all save the dept psychologist. So I bottled everything up, and it bit me out of the blue three years later. Once I started talking to people about it, everything has gone back to normal, and I can sleep again. We had a recent OIS involving three of our officers. One was shot, and he's doing fine. The other two did most of the killing of the BG, and they both took it much harder than the one who got shot. Two of the three have been doing fine. One is a basket case off duty but is still very competent and business-like on duty. I worry about him, and have had him over to talk several times (we have occasional "shooter's club" meetings at my house).

Overall, I'd say that the psychological impact of a shooting is by far the worst part of it. I also believe in the shooting, you will react as you were trained and will perform according to how much time and effort you have put into training. But there seems to be little training on what to expect after the shoot. I wish a bit more time was spent on that. We have 4 mandatory shoots per year. I wish we had at least one mandatory in-service "dealing with the aftermath of a shooting" class per year. I think that would help a bunch.
 
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