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News guaranteed to make your head spin

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by wprebeck, Jan 30, 2013.

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  1. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    I would like to respectfully disagree with you, Tous. There is that old saying about those who don't learn from history be doomed to repeat it. But sometimes we DO learn, and we can all hope that this is one of those times.

    Personally, I'd like to see an organization made of LEO's and citizens that stands up for the rights of all. And I realize that cops are members of the NRA and such. I'm thinking an organization based on citizens and LEO's working together.
     
  2. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    Wprebeck,

    I am relieved that your lodge has this mindset. Often times we define ourselves by what our occupation(s) are (or in this case, is not!).

    The "Clinton Ban" of 1994-2004 was almost like being inoculated with a small dose of stupidity. Many of the regular citizens all over this country stood behind that ban because there was no previous history in recent years of such a type of ban.

    Today, mostly EVERYONE knows what bans such as that accomplish, and what it does not, so the decision has much less gray areas and much more of a binary situation than before. We know that certain bans on magazines don't "work", there is no need to test and see.



    My final thought on this march towards pro-gun vs pro-control war is that it would be much more efficient for each of us (gun nuts) to find someone who is anti gun, and with logic, patience and gentle persuasion show them our perspective. In my experience working with someone who is anti gun, but open minded to discussion, it takes time, but that convert immediately takes a vote from the minus side and puts it on the (our) plus side.

    To date I have not seen one single large gun-rights organization promulgate a plan that addresses changing the mindset of anti gun folks. That is where the "war" will be won or lost. All of this fundraising lobbying congress ****, those are simply skirmishes.

    Find someone who is anti gun and work on showing them your perspective.
     

  3. NorthCarolinaLiberty

    NorthCarolinaLiberty MentalDefective

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    Everything is back-doored these days, so the door-to-door confiscation thing isn't even necessary.

    There is already a bill in congress that would provide a $2,000 IRS credit if you turn in your weapon. Now, turn up the IRS involvement another notch or two. Suppose the IRS claims you owe some back taxes just about the same time your CCW "permit" is up for renewal. All it takes is a mandate to all the (at first) may issue states. Sheriffs will no longer be permitted to issue or renew a CCW for those with an IRS claim against them. Don't want to comply with the U.S. Treasury, you say? Then forget about any federal funding, at the very least.

    Lots of other scenarios like this one. The stick-and-carrot approach will keep law enforcement in line without ever knocking on a single door.
     
  4. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

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    Kudos, sir.

    You'd be disappointed as to how many people really don't know (or don't want to acknowledge) that cops don't make the laws.

    Laws are made by lawmakers (sounds obvious), who are the Legislative branch of our .gov. They are answerable to their constituents (that's you and me) who can elect them into, and out of, office. True, it might take 2 to 4 years before election time, but it comes.
     
  5. *ASH*

    *ASH* FURBANITE

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    i think everyone with an ounce of common sense knows LEO does not make the laws . that statement is a known fact yet it keeps getting repeated for some odd reason .
    THE FACT IS - LEO are the ones who enforce those laws ,
    be wrong or right , agree or disagree .
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  6. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

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    That's great news wpbreck.

    Common sense dictates that you treat cops for what they are - individuals.

    Having said that, we are pretty much a product of our environment and the some of guys on the left and right coasts are probably going to have a different view of things compared to the guys in most of the heartland states.

    Regards,
    Comrade Happyguy :)
     
  7. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    You just did exactly that.:impatient::impatient:
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  8. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    There are many more like you two out here.
     
  9. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    How do we, as the beneficiaries of that dissent, make it happen?
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  10. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    When someone leads off with, "I don't hate...," it plants the seed that you really might. I struck through that and added "police". See how it reads?

    If you are suspicious of police, just say it. Lots of us have some suspicions about some aspect of law enforcement.

    Mine is about senior management. Too often leadership stops at middle management. Senior management is either ineffective or overbearing. Neither extreme is conducive to strong leadership. I always ask, How and why did they get the job.
     
  11. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    What does that say about the group?

    Might it say that they realize it was ineffective?

    Might it say they realize '94 had no impact on criminal gun violence?

    Might it say they see that it did place unconstitutional burdens on law abiding citizens ability to defend themselves with weapons equal to those possessed illegally by criminals?

    Might it...?
     
  12. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    Yes, you are correct. Those in LE do not make the the laws.

    Let me ask you this. Whenever Obama, Bloomberg, Feinstein, Cuomo, those people have press conferences promoting gun control, who generally, beyond their current fondness for children, can be found in the background demonstrating support for their agenda?

    And when legislation is introduced at both the Federal and State level, during committee hearings, who testifies, or offers letters of agreement and support for those gun control measures?

    Aren't those people the Chiefs and Sheriffs of major jurisdictions and representatives of major law enforcement associations?

    Yes, they do not make the law, but their presence indicates, falsely, that they represent all of law enforcement. The politicians who do make the law want everyone to believe that lie. They want people to believe that every officer, deputy, agent they see wants the gun control they, the politicians are proposing.

    How do you counter that? It's simple. Have more police and sheriffs organizations come out publicly against gun control.

    How do you do that? You contact them. You ask for their support. You ask them to stand beside you. You ask them stand up for they Constitution.

    Now, when the politicians call on them to appear as decorations on their agenda cake, they'll say, "No. your legislation will not deter gun violence by the criminals making the headlines on which you feed. It will undermine the Right of self defense of the very citizens, law abiding citizens, you represent..."

    Yes, politicians do value support from LE. Our job is to have the overwhelming support on our side, behind politicians against gun control, not Obama's side, not Feinstein's side, not Bloomberg's side, not Cuomo's side.

    See why it is important to seek that support from cops?
     
  13. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    Excellent idea.
     
  14. Fredder

    Fredder TANSTAAFL

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    Yes, and examples were posted. Some are never going to change their minds.

    Well said.
     
  15. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    That is scary.

    http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/226/text?q=h.r. 226
    1 weapon, 1 time, receive credit 50% one year, 50% next year earns you registration with the IRS that you may own more than one """"Assault"""" weapon.

    I'll pass this along to my friends who do own """"Assault"""" weapons.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  16. MadeInAmerica

    MadeInAmerica

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    Don't blame a few bad cops for following bad orders. Blame the citizens ( sheeple ) for not having the guts to tell the cops no. It's easy to talk tough.
     
  17. poikilotrm

    poikilotrm

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    Well, there was that time that Sheriff Mark McClure broke into my home and manufactured an SBR, then charged me with having a dangerous weapon under Georgia law. He also tried to get the ATF to charge me, but they refused because he told them what he did. He later admitted having manufactured the SBR while under oath and on the stand.

    He was never arrested, never charged, yada yada yada.

    If you are serious, please start a thread asking me to list where cops have enforced unConstitutional laws. I will be happy to provide numerous links. We can start with that troop busted for having standard capacity AR mags in NY if you like.
     
  18. poikilotrm

    poikilotrm

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    Really? You're going Nuremburg on this? Wow.
     
  19. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Most excellent, tous.

    Letters or no letters, what the American people deserve is to have their public servants publicly refuse to enforce unconstitutional laws that seek to destroy the People's natural rights. Period.
     
  20. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    I don't know what remedies you have at your legal disposal, but, if your FOP leadership ignores your request what will you do? Will you leave the union? Vote to dissolve it? Will you resign or refuse to enforce gun control laws if ordered to do so?
     
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