Newbie to 10 mm loading w/?s

Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by cgff, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. cgff

    cgff

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    fellow 10mm loaders?s I’m a Newbie to loading 10mm, but I have loaded .45 357 44 etc. extensively.

    My plan to start is Lee 4 die set W/taper crimp. And trading for a set of RCBS dies both carbide
    Current press is RCBS Rock chucker, and lee C press (mostly for seating and crimping)
    Have a Dillion SQ deal currently set for 9mm,

    Planning on ordering 10mm Bullets? Reccomendations? jhp or FMJ/Tmj/Cmj?
    Thinking 180g Xtreme, or 180 gr Delta precision or Montana gold 180. Thoughts/Suggestions?


    Mainly looking at rolling my own for range and plinking Thinking Blue dot is a good overall
    Powder for 10 mm from what I have read. Thinking low to mid 10mm loads?
    1050 fps to 1200s. Am I in the right place with Blue Dot?
    Recommendations/Thoughts/Suggestions. AA#7? AA#9? Other?
    Good metering? My powder measurer is a RSBS uniflow?
    I usually spot weigh every 5 or so and visually check volume level

    My 2-10mm pistols are: Dan Wesson 5”1911 Razorback and Glock 29

    I have on hand: BE 86, power pistol, 231, unique. These are used mostly
    For 45 acp and 44 and are 1 lb jugs.

    Help a newbie out? Suggestions?
    Wish to share pet loads? I do know work up to get there
    Thank you
    Carl
     
  2. myalias789

    myalias789

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    No problems with the Lee Dies especially using the taper instead of full length last stage. I doubt you will ever have need to change them.

    Many of us shoot moly coated lead for practice because of the price.

    Blue dot is very accurate but long shot will get you more rounds per pound and is usually more available. Acurate #9 remains king of the heavier weights within book data.
     
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  3. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

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    I like my lee dies, no need for the RCBS, IMHO.

    For powder, Longshot, 800x work great, for full
    power loads, #9 is good too, so is Power Pistol.

    That is what the more powerful factor loads use.

    For my needs, home cast boolits and 180gr XTPs
    are good to go.

    This will probably be my #1 cast load for hunting,

    http://arsenalmolds.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=103

    Have tested some but need to go higher, have
    tested other cast and have had good results but
    think the new design with the bigger meplat will
    be better.

    IMO, the 180gr wt WFNs will be the best for hunting,
    they will compare with the 158gr 357 mag but with
    a bigger meplat, they will give up a little in FPS though.

    WARNING, DON'T USE THIS FOR LOAD DATA,
    USE DATA FROM NEW RELOADING MANUALS,

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gex6ItGeWQunVZR9B14mseacyEGoreRRrBEXZavfciM/edit#gid=6

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gex6ItGeWQunVZR9B14mseacyEGoreRRrBEXZavfciM/edit#gid=7

    This a good site to learn more about the 10mm
    and many other calibers,

    http://10mm-firearms.com/index.php
     
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  4. Kwesi

    Kwesi

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    I use Power Pistol, Longshot and AA9 all of which meter very well. While 800x is good for the 10mm it meters like corn flakes so I hand weigh every charge if using it. Taterhead has made me a fan of AA9 for my hottest loads.
     
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  5. cgff

    cgff

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    Thank you All
    I have power pistol and BE 86 on hand Thinking AA#9 or Blue dot
    Great info. Ordered up some Lee dies, from midway last night
    and some FMJ bullets from Everglades Ammo, .40- 180gr Armscors
    Took my DW Razorback out, it’s initial break in, 50 rounds PPU 170gr tmj, Corbon 165s & Winchester 175 Silvertips thinking I need a few more boxes of the Corbons
    Now I need to source a supply of some JHPs to run some home brew warmer loads
    Any recommendations?
     
  6. myalias789

    myalias789

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    Most folks are using Hornady XTP’s for their outdoors needs in a 10mm JHP.
     
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  7. Borg Warner

    Borg Warner

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    Power pistol is and excellent powder for the 10mm but BE-86 is a faster burn rate powder similar to Unique which will work OK but slower burning powders will give higher velocities with lower pressures especially with the heavier weight bullets.

    There's one more thing that you absolutely need. Load data from every major published source all in one book for 10mm and 40 S&W. The Loadbooks USA Manual, available from Midway. It provides a lot of different data for comparison purposes.

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/414298/loadbooks-usa-reloading-manual

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. gjarcher

    gjarcher Captain USN ret.

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    I think responses to date have covered all your questions.

    For casings, Starline brass has been very good ... I stopped counting after 25 reloads, and I must have 35 reloads on some cases, which are just now beginning to show case mouth cracks. Prorated, that's about 1/2¢/case/reload...of course you have to recover your brass, which can frustrating with hot 10mm loads.

    I use PP for all my range and plinking, and AA9 for the 200/220gr. BE86 is flash suppressed, so that might have advantages for SD/HD 150/155gr JHP. Nozler 150gr JHP shoots very accurately. I've got some good results with Blue Dot and 180gr HDY XTP.

    As far as bullets, I've found the jacketed hollow points shoot a bit more accurately ... probably due to a greater bearing surface and OAL, plus less influenced by over crimp. Plated bullets are less expensive and also fairly accurate if not over crimped...I've had good success with the Rainier 165gr Plated HP.

    Hard Cast Lead is by far the cheapest, even if you don't mold/size your own, but there are a number of factors in successfully shooting lead that I am still learning, so can't offer much advice on that. If you are looking for inexpensive, but quality HC Lead bullets, I'd recommend Straight Shooters http://www.sscastbullets.com/category-s/108.htm

    For Woods/BlackBear defense the 200gr HDY XTP is a good choice. For Alaska Brown/Griz defense a 200gr hard cast lead at least BHN18 with a large meplat is highly recommended. Montana Bullet Works heat treats their BHN15 bullets to BHN22 (likely 6%Sb), Beartooth Bullets heat treats their 3% Sb hard cast to BHN21.
     
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  9. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

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    This is a very good book on,
    learning about cast.

    http://lbtmolds.com/Products/tabid/5806/Default.aspx

    Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets by Veral Smith


    [​IMG]

    This illustrated booklet is recommended reading for all bullet casters, especially beginners, but even for those with 40 years experience. It has information about cast bullets which you won’t find anywhere else, and covers every important factor about making and shooting let bullets. It explains how to do it, the scientific answer to things that can go wrong, why, and how to correct any problem. Has Veral's new formula on killing power which dispels the other theories and myths (unscientific and unprovable notions) relative to killing power, and explains what actually makes a bullet kill. You’ll know and can prove the whole book is fact, and learn that the author despises theory, on anything!

    Price: $25.00 Shipping weight ½ lb.
     
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  10. Taterhead

    Taterhead Nightshade

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    Precision Delta bullets are great, and priced well if bought in bulk. Blue Dot is a solid choice. Used lot if it. In that burn rate No. 7 is more civilized. Long Shot is solid too. All my max velocity loads use Accurate No. 9.

    Pretty much all the major dies work, so it comes down to personal preference on design. Although I could never in good conscience recommend the Lee CFCD.

    I personally don't care for the design of Lee dies. I have primarily standardized on RCBS dies after fiddling with the different brands. And I have been falling for a new Redding micro adjustable crimp die that was generously gifted to me. I don't care such for the Redding comp seater since it is not well suited for some cast bullets I load. GREAT for jacketed.

    Hi-tek coated bullets also work great for general use. I find them more accurate than plated. Sizing is critical. I cast and coat my own, and have been shooting cast almost exclusively for the past 3 years. Mild to wild.

    @happie2shoot is a big proponent of casting, and a great resource for data. The book in his link is an awesome reference. Put of print at the moment, but Veral Smith has said he's working on it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  11. gjarcher

    gjarcher Captain USN ret.

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    I'm wading through the free .PDF download of Fryxell's "From Ingot to Target" http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
    Don't know how the info contained compares to Veral Smith's "Jacketed Performance from Cast Bullets", but will most likely get it also for casting reference.
    ... although, lead casting is another 'investment'; heater, molds, sizer, lubes, etc. If I knew all this when I built my house, I'd have doubled the size of the garage workshop!
     
  12. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

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    If you are good with your hands, I think you are,
    you need the book by Veral Smith.

    My history with Veral,
    was in gunsmith school in 1987
    and stumbled on an article written by Veral on,
    correcting revolver dimensions to make it shoot.

    When I say shoot I mean around two inch groups at 100 yards with some of the most powerful loads to date,
    with revolvers, like a 180+gr cast FNGC over 1500 FPS
    in a 357 mag or a 340gr LFNGC around 1450 fps in a
    44 mag.

    That book will teach you how to get the most power and
    accuracy with cast boolits than any other book I know of,
    that is with rifles, pistols and revolvers.

    Any rifle worth a crap should shoot cast boolits in one
    inch at 100 yards using his information.

    He also makes some of the best, I believe the best,
    molds available with the best designs, WFN, LFN are
    two of them.
     
  13. Longbow

    Longbow Millennium Member

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    I use Hodgdon Longshot with good results.
     
  14. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

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    Have had at least six of his books, most of them got lent
    out and I did not get them back from customers that had
    me build or alter their guns for cast, still have two of them
    and am looking forward to his new one, was going to order
    another one last year and he told me to wait for the newer
    one coming out soon.

    OP, please forgive me for this, it is more about 44 mag.

    Up to 1985 I was content with a Keith 240gr + boolit
    around 1500 FPS, really wanted more because I was
    a very serious handgun shooter.

    In the 80s JD Jones came out with a new cast boolit to
    get more power from the 44 mag, got that mold and was
    happy with it, it cast a 335gr boolit and was getting around
    1450 FPS in a 7.5'' Ruger, this article has a version of
    that boolit,

    http://www.lasc.us/AfricanHunt-CastBullets.htm

    The mold came with load data with the pressure too,
    still have that data and when I learn how to post pics
    I will post on this forum.

    Veral came along and improves that boolit, and most
    other cast boolits.
     
  15. cgff

    cgff

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    Again a big thank you all,
    If any one has some light or starting loads for Power pistol 180g
    And or start loads for BE86 180 gr, that info would be great 180 gr

    Most of my supplies have either arrived or on there way, I bought some PPU 170s for range fodder, And some S&B also I plan on pitching the PPU brass, but trying the S&B
    For some mild loads, Starline brass is on the way. I have a box of Armscor 180s, 180 gdhps, Hornady 180 XTPS on hand. And some Speer 180s and Hornady 180 Haps on the way.

    I will be ordering some xtreme 180s later this week along with some 45s from them.

    Had a co worker give me/trade me a half case of master cartridge 180s and 4 boxes of win 175 Silvertips These are the older 50 round boxes you seldom see any more. Woot woot.

    Next is developing a good range load for the Armscors 180 FMJ s thinking starting 7.6 PP win LPP
    And col 1.250-1.260 and working up.
    May also try my hand at some BE86 light loads also

    Thank you
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  16. Mr Meeseeks

    Mr Meeseeks

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    http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...owderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=8&cartridge=30

    There are some max charges for Power Pistol. Back off 10% and work up.
     
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  17. FireCaptain

    FireCaptain

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    If you want to utilize the "easy button", spend an extra $12 and buy a factory crimp die. Essentially foolproof.
     
  18. rogn

    rogn real dogs

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    I bought a G20 primarily as a hunter. I replaced the oem barrel with a 6+" LW to comply with absurd regs on deer/handgun . Ive tried every combination of bullet and powder that seemed reasonable and promising for hunting and eventually diverged from the conventional wisdom. Longshot and AA9 gave the best velocities and fair accuracy with 180 and 200gr bullets , but the fair part was not that acceptable~ 2.5-3.5" @30 yds. I started messing with the plated bullets as inexpensive practice bullets that avoided the leading issues of cast. Accuracy was better around 2". this was with the Rannier bullets. Tried the Berry plated 180s HP which are about 0.401+ instead of 0.400 skinny. Worked up to the max/max loads with Blue Dot and groups work out to about an inch at 30yds. The max velocities were still in the realm of cast bullets so no caveats were violated.
    Since these are plated bullets which are essentially bonded bullets I started to evaluate the integrity of these bullets on improvised targets. I did not have the opportunity to shoot any deer with the combo since all shots were at longer range rifle was the harvest tool. But I saved the heads and bony structures to blast at short range with the Berry's bullets. Surprisingly at 2' the 180 HPs would blast thru 2 deer heads anda hard melon known as a citron then bury in the hard ground. Weight retention was very good mostly over 50%, with none of the bullets disintegrating. This has become my go to load for deer, but unfortunately no deer volunteered as test subjects this year.
    The loads used were established v heavy Blue Dot loads with the velocities over 1300FPS. You may want to investigate this combination. Work up load for your own gun. The performance of the bullets have been very satisfying.
     
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  19. gjarcher

    gjarcher Captain USN ret.

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    You'll want to start work up using BE-86 with 180 JHP at 7.5gr. 8.2gr is max load.
    I don't use PP for heavy-for-caliber bullets, it is optimized for mid-weight bullets. 8.2gr PP under a 155gr or 165gr jacketed or plated bullet will shoot about 1250 to 1300 fps. For 180gr JHP/FMJ you'll want to start at about 8.5gr, maybe a little less for a light load.
    Frankly, for range practice and economy, I usually don't work up over the recommended start load, which is generally 10% less than max load.

    Unless I'm mistaken, most of the copper plated bullet manufacturers have recently backed off slightly from their recommended maximum velocities.

    When using Berry's for velocities over 1300 fps, the TP (thick plate) which is rated to 1500 fps it the better choice, although it seems Berry's is limiting the availability of TP bullets. When using Berry's SP bullets, it is advised to check the barrel for leading, copper shedding, as load work up exceeds 1250 fps, the max recommended velocity. Berry's 180gr Hybrid HP is only recommend for velocities up to 1075 fps, likely due to HP performance than copper shedding. Some states require an expanding HP design for hunting, some don't.

    I talked with both Rainier and HMS about max velocities with their plated bullets. Rainier says any velocity over 1250 fps may start shedding the plating. HMS replied that at about 1300 fps copper shedding could be a problem, along with barrel leading. HMS also said their bullet might be 'pushed' a bit over 1300 fps, but it depended on a number of variable factors, so no guarantees.

    For hunting, I've found the Hornady XTP both in 180gr and 200gr to be very accurate. I got excellent accuracy with 10.7gr Blue Dot & 180gr HDY XTP, but when I did a low-light, early morning shoot the Blue Dot muzzle flash lived up to its reputation.:eek:
    https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/blue-dot-vs-imr-blue-180gr-fmj.1720190/#post-26181212
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
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  20. Taterhead

    Taterhead Nightshade

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    I own a couple, but I would never advise anyone to use a post sizing die for crimping. It will get poorly-loaded ammo to chamber, but a handloader would be better served in the long run to identify the reason that ammo is failing to case gauge or kerplunk.
     
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