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New Underwood Ammo- Xtreme Defender

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Looks interesting. Best I can tell this is a brand new design.

https://www.underwoodammo.com/xtreme-defender/
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Lehigh has come out with a very similar design, there are lots of you-tube vids about them. I have not bought & tested any of them but it could be yet another option for self defense ammo.

 

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The bullets are made by lehigh and loaded by underwood. The performance looks good in gel. I'm not sure the cavity would be as impressive in tissue. Time will tell.
 

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I'd consider something like this in .380, but there's plenty of good JHP options out there in 9mm that I would prefer to use.
 
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· Code-7A KUZ769
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This bullet design from Lehigh Defense shows extremely dangerous overpenetration, especially in 9mm.

This bullet design is most definately not appropriate for SD use in any caliber, even if one lives in NJ.
 

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This bullet design from Lehigh Defense shows extremely dangerous overpenetration, especially in 9mm.
This bullet design is most definately not appropriate for SD use in any caliber, even if one lives in NJ.
Well... I see what you are saying but I don't entirely agree with your statement. Every cartridge/bullet has it's merits and purposes, even if you or I don't see any need for such a round.

In all likely-hood, I will not be purchasing any of these anytime soon but it would be interesting to run a series of tests on these bullets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This bullet design from Lehigh Defense shows extremely dangerous overpenetration, especially in 9mm.

This bullet design is most definately not appropriate for SD use in any caliber, even if one lives in NJ.
This isn't the Xtreme Penetrator. This one says it avoids over penetration.
 

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This isn't the Xtreme Penetrator. This one says it avoids over penetration.
Extreme Defender is suppose to limit expansion as opposed to the XP version. This has much larger flutes. I can't wait to see someone test it in jello.
 

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It seems that you people don't understand that the bullet that Lehigh first introduced to the market is the same exact bullet being loaded by Underwood! Lehigh calls it the Extreme Penetrator and Underwood calls it the Extreme Defender. BFD!
 

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BengalBacker is right I believe; these are meant to correct the over-penetration that XP rounds had in 9mm and other calibers larger than 380 (where XP was just fine by FBI standards). The flutes displace energy outwards in a focused manner and act as a brake relative to FMJ. These flutes in the Xtreme Defender are much exaggerated relative to the XP rounds, and would brake the bullet faster while at the same time using that braking energy to destroy tissue in a radial fashion (4 jets, 4 lines out of slice and dice, X pattern). So it's both more destructive and penetrates more appropriately relative to FBI standards. The +P 9mm penetrates 16 inches and +P+ 9mm penetrates 16.75 inches. Don't yet know what the diameter of the permanent wound track is just yet, but the picture looks dramatic.

So no reliance on hollow point opening, no overpenetration if hollow point doesn't open (because not a hollow point), not illegal in NJ (3 mi from my house), probably penetrates very well through all types of material like the XP, and probably has a long permanent wound track in excess of 1" width, with 9mm hollow points having a wound track under .75 inches width.

Some of that is guess work, but I think all true. These guys can design the bullets to penetrate wherever, and can change the design and test it within a day with their Swiss CNC machinery.

Should prove very popular now that everyone is switching to 9mm and .45 (unlike the XP in those rounds due to overpenetration)..
 

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I'm a fan of the XP. The ones I bought for my rifle, loaded by Underwood, are advertised as solid copper, but it looks like I have a run that are solid brass and yes, they penetrate. Deep as ****. They had a nice selection of Lehigh bullets. Yes, that's a .45 ACP on the right.


 

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It seems that you people don't understand that the bullet that Lehigh first introduced to the market is the same exact bullet being loaded by Underwood! Lehigh calls it the Extreme Penetrator and Underwood calls it the Extreme Defender. BFD!
No they are not the same. Underwood offers the XP as well the defender. They look similar but are designed to do different things. It is a BFD because the XP overpenetrates. Underwood never called the XP the defender because they are different. The XP came first, the defender is a brand new design. Hello!! Try to keep up please before commenting about something your clearly not informed about. :wavey:
 
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BengalBacker is right I believe; these are meant to correct the over-penetration that XP rounds had in 9mm and other calibers larger than 380 (where XP was just fine by FBI standards). The flutes displace energy outwards in a focused manner and act as a brake relative to FMJ. These flutes in the Xtreme Defender are much exaggerated relative to the XP rounds, and would brake the bullet faster while at the same time using that braking energy to destroy tissue in a radial fashion (4 jets, 4 lines out of slice and dice, X pattern). So it's both more destructive and penetrates more appropriately relative to FBI standards. The +P 9mm penetrates 16 inches and +P+ 9mm penetrates 16.75 inches. Don't yet know what the diameter of the permanent wound track is just yet, but the picture looks dramatic.

So no reliance on hollow point opening, no overpenetration if hollow point doesn't open (because not a hollow point), not illegal in NJ (3 mi from my house), probably penetrates very well through all types of material like the XP, and probably has a long permanent wound track in excess of 1" width, with 9mm hollow points having a wound track under .75 inches width.
Everyone is switching to 9mm and .45.....that's news.
Some of that is guess work, but I think all true. These guys can design the bullets to penetrate wherever, and can change the design and test it within a day with their Swiss CNC machinery.

Should prove very popular now that everyone is switching to 9mm and .45 (unlike the XP in those rounds due to overpenetration)..
Now that everyone is switching to the 9mm and .45......that's news I thought everyone was switching to the .380!
 

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The Lehigh XD has impressive velocity but not impressed with the 90 gr bullet weight in their 357 Sig , 9mm loads. I suspect they do not pack the punch that a good hollow point does. But both the Lehigh XD and XP help fill the performance gap between a FMJ and a good hollow point round, each one with its own unique strong points.
 

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"that's news I thought everyone was switching to the .380!"

Well, big users and leaders like law enforcement (FBI, etc) are not switching to .380. They are going to 9mm, and the army to 45. IMHO, 9mm is the where the trend is going (for better or worse, no comment) as it hits many sweet spots in terms of rounds per mag, low recoil, speed to follow up shot, cheapness of ammo, availability of ammo, ease for law enforcement to qualify annually, and now lethality with new rounds. Sure, the 380 is popular for CC and back up guns, and it is a big trend, but for duty guns, 9mm is it, with 45 not far behind. Apparently, .40 demand is falling off a cliff, which is the real news (old news now basically). Parenthetically, I'm moving more to .40 as there are deals to be had on .40 guns and ammo, and of course, any incremental improvement in 9mm also will apply to .40, still leaving .40 as the more lethal round, shot for shot (other 9mm advantages set aside for the moment).

"I suspect they do not pack the punch that a good hollow point does. "

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating of it, and I am pretty confident that the permanent wound channel of this bullet will out do the hollow point, and consistently so (with no chance for non expansion). The wound channel just simply does not get above .75 inch wide for hollow points, and the wide portion is not that long either. With these new rounds, the 9mm permanent wound channel is 1" for XP and I think 8+ inches long before tapering down to a FMJ type wound track. The XD bullet should meet or exceed that 1" channel because the fluting is more aggressive (my conjecture, should find out shortly with videos and PR). So the objective punch/tissue destruction should beat the HP IMHO. Main downside is cost.
 

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"that's news I thought everyone was switching to the .380!"

Well, big users and leaders like law enforcement (FBI, etc) are not switching to .380. They are going to 9mm, and the army to 45. IMHO, 9mm is the where the trend is going (for better or worse, no comment) as it hits many sweet spots in terms of rounds per mag, low recoil, speed to follow up shot, cheapness of ammo, availability of ammo, ease for law enforcement to qualify annually, and now lethality with new rounds. Sure, the 380 is popular for CC and back up guns, and it is a big trend, but for duty guns, 9mm is it, with 45 not far behind. Apparently, .40 demand is falling off a cliff, which is the real news (old news now basically). Parenthetically, I'm moving more to .40 as there are deals to be had on .40 guns and ammo, and of course, any incremental improvement in 9mm also will apply to .40, still leaving .40 as the more lethal round, shot for shot (other 9mm advantages set aside for the moment).

"I suspect they do not pack the punch that a good hollow point does. "

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating of it, and I am pretty confident that the permanent wound channel of this bullet will out do the hollow point, and consistently so (with no chance for non expansion). The wound channel just simply does not get above .75 inch wide for hollow points, and the wide portion is not that long either. With these new rounds, the 9mm permanent wound channel is 1" for XP and I think 8+ inches long before tapering down to a FMJ type wound track. The XD bullet should meet or exceed that 1" channel because the fluting is more aggressive (my conjecture, should find out shortly with videos and PR). So the objective punch/tissue destruction should beat the HP IMHO. Main downside is cost.
Actually I was joking when I said everyone is going to the .380, but I am not joking when I say that basically there seems to be an evening out in caliber popularity and that in the future there will not be everyone using one popular round. The .380 is however gaining quite a bit of popularity the 10mm is slowly gaining, what the .40 is losing in law enforcement it is gaining even more in civilian use mainly due to the fact that during the shortage .40 ammo was readily available. Even the 357 Sig is gaining due to the fact that many people are buying 357 barrels for there .40 and vise versa. Its a whole new world for handgun calibers so don't regress into the old , progress into the new. And as far as the Lehigh rounds being as effective as modern hollow points, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
 

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No they are not the same. Underwood offers the XP as well the defender. They look similar but are designed to do different things. It is a BFD because the XP overpenetrates. Underwood never called the XP the defender because they are different. The XP came first, the defender is a brand new design. Hello!! Try to keep up please before commenting about something your clearly not informed about. :wavey:
Lehigh Defense LLC is the originator and patent holder of the bullet in question which is called the Xtreme Penetrator.

http://www.lehighdefense.com/pages/xtreme-penetrator

Underwood buys and loads Lehigh's Xtreme Penetrator bullets for their "Xtreme Defender" line of ammo.

If you and others believe that Lehigh makes two different "Xtreme" bullets in the same caliber (excluding bullet weight/length) please provide specific details that show exactly how the Xtreme Penetrator bullets made/loaded by Lehigh are different from what Underwood is loading for their line of "Xtreme Defender" ammo. I would like to know how the bullets are supposedly different.

Thank You.
 
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