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New OEM 9mm Extractor - Midway - 2nd Range Report - Pics

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by HKLovingIT, Jul 28, 2012.

  1. HKLovingIT

    HKLovingIT Resident Evil

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    Well,

    To continue the story from last time:

    I was inspired by Trackstar55's positive report on his extractor replacement here:

    http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1433901

    I ordered one up from Midway to put in my problem G17. [Just a note, two other older G17s I have are fine.]

    Here is my thread where I have lots of big pics comparing it to the Glock replacement, and a dipped one I have on hand.

    http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1434216

    I was hoping to put to rest the BTF and Left Hand Ejection and Dribblers and all that mess with this pistol. This G17 Gen 3 had already been back to Glock once where they replaced the dipped "from the store" extractor with a non-dipped one, and whatever else they did. That did not fix the problem though it made it a whole lot better.

    So I got the new extractor in from Midway I and took it to the range last week for 400 rounds. I had a very positive result. It was better than when it had come back from Glock. Here is my report on that.

    http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1434331

    Today I went to put another 600 rounds through it to get to an even 1000 on the new part. I took the following ammunition:

    100 American Eagle 124 gr
    100 Blazer Brass 115 gr
    100 Blazer Brass 124gr
    200 Fed Champ 115 gr
    100 WWB 115 gr [never shot this before in this pistol]

    The pistol was cleaned and lubed per factory instructions prior to this trip out. [As it is every time I go.]

    In all previous testing with this pistol Fed Champion 115 gr and Blazer Aluminum 124 gr have always given the best results in terms of not getting brass to the face. I don't really care to argue about the ammo. I shoot this same stuff through all my pistols from SIGS, HK, M&P and my other 9mm Glocks without any issues. It's all American made, SAAMI spec 9mm ammo as is commonly found in any police supply or sporting goods store across the entire United States.

    Here is the ammo:

    [​IMG]


    I split the ammo into stacks at the range.

    Stack 1:
    50 American Eagle 124 gr
    50 Blazer Brass 115 gr
    50 Fed Champ 115 gr
    50 Blazer Brass 124 gr

    Stack 2:
    50 American Eagle 124 gr
    50 Blazer Brass 115 gr
    50 Fed Champ 115 gr
    50 Blazer Brass 124 gr

    Stack 3:
    50 Fed Champ 115 gr
    50 Fed Champ 115 gr

    Stack 4
    50 Winchester WB 115gr
    50 Winchester WB 115gr

    I used the same magazines as my last outing. 3 x 17 round factory magazines. Numbered. I loaded 50 rounds per step to the line. I always shoot outdoors.

    I shot at a moderate pace at paper. I did not do any mag dumps or other fancy stuff. Just meat and potatoes target shooting. Between each stack I took about a 15 min break and just chilled in a chair.

    So this is what I got: [I tracked left hand ejection and BTF this time. Yep I made notes as I went.]

    LH=left hand ejection
    BTF=brass to face [that actually hit me in face] Did not count any that sailed over my head, and some did.

    Stack 1:
    50 American Eagle 124 gr 1 LH, 0 BTF
    50 Blazer Brass 115 gr 2 LH, 4 BTF
    50 Fed Champ 115 gr 4 BTF
    50 Blazer Brass 124 gr 3 BTF

    Stack 2:
    50 American Eagle 124 gr 3 BTF
    50 Blazer Brass 115 gr 1 BTF
    50 Fed Champ 115 gr 4 BTF
    50 Blazer Brass 124 gr 1 BTF

    Stack 3:
    50 Fed Champ 115 gr 1 STOVEPIPE OH MY, 1 LH, 3 BTF
    50 Fed Champ 115 gr 3 BTF

    Stack 4
    50 Winchester WB 115gr 2 BTF
    50 Winchester WB 115gr 0 BTF

    So wow, quite a different result from my last outing earlier this week. I was all excited that it was about done doing this mess. I guess it was not meant to be.

    You will notice above that I got a stovepipe. An honest to goodness malfunction. I will note the following about this:

    1. I have never had a stovepipe before in this or my other Glocks or any pistol I own except .22 SIG Mosquito, maybe my 1911 once, but I don't think so.
    2. I did not have any others after this one.
    3. I ain't the first guy on planet Earth to get a stovepipe and I'm not going to be the last.
    4. It could be the gun, a light loaded round or a gnat farted at me sideways. I dunno.
    5. The next round was almost in the chamber and the slide caught this empty. It happened about halfway through the magazine.
    6. I karate chopped the empty away [just like in those freaking awesome Magpul videos!-lolz.], the slide closed and I resumed firing.
    7. After that magazine was finished I functioned checked the RSA and field stripped. Everything looked okay. The magazine looked fine. I resumed shooting.

    Here are photos of it. Sorry my thumb is in there and they are a little blurred. I was juggling a hot gun.

    Photo 1:

    [​IMG]


    Photo 2:

    [​IMG]


    So here is the total tally for today by ammo brand and weight:

    100 American Eagle 124 gr 1 LH, 3 BTF
    100 Blazer Brass 115 gr 2LH, 5 BTF
    100 Blazer Brass 124 gr 4 BTF
    200 Fed Champ 115gr 1 STOVEPIPE, 1 LH, 14 BTF
    100 WWB 115 gr 2 BTF

    Interesting that today the Fed Champ did the worst. Last time out I fired 100 of it with no BTF or LH. [Today's Fed Champ was from the same case as last time.] Over the course of tracking this stuff with this pistol it has always been the best performer in terms of BTF or LH. Kooky man.

    Last time out I did not have left hand ejections or dribblers down the right arm. Today some left hand ejection returned but I still did not have any dribblers down the right arm which is good.

    I guess back to square one. I'm going to send it in to Glock again and see what they'll do for me. I hope I can get an exchange for a factory refurb from pre 2010.

    Pic of my mess in the aftermath so you know I shot it:

    [​IMG]


    Finally here is the extractor from Midway with 1000 rounds on it. I apologize that they did not come out as focused as my earlier ones. You can get the general idea though. After 400 rounds it showed virtually no wear. However today you can see it has worn in at certain spots. It still looks a bit better than the one Glock replaced during service but that one has more rounds on it.

    Photo 1:

    [​IMG]


    Photo 2

    [​IMG]


    In conclusion, I was little bummed considering how good it did last time, but it was still a real nice day out and a nice day to go shooting. I don't consider the ammo wasted as trigger time is trigger time.

    I don't honestly know if the problem is the extractor. This is the fourth one tried in this pistol. It's not like there are a lot of other parts in a Glock.

    Original from factory.
    One new old stock from my parts tub.
    One replaced by Glock.
    This one from Midway.

    I have repeatedly put this pistol's slide on my other older OD G17 frame - it still does this. I can put my old OD G17 slide on this new frame and - no problems. Seems there is nothing wrong with the frame or its internals.

    Something in, on, about or with the slide seems to be the only logical conclusion. Plus I limp wrist like crazy I know. I'm working on getting my dead lift up to 2000 pounds so I have the grip strength to tame this beast. I'm just glad that older Glocks were made without having this new fangled grip strength requirement.

    Thanks,

    HK

    P.S. My new USP Compact 9mm continues to not eject to the left or at my face. Lolz. [Neither do my SIGS, old Glocks, or M&Ps]

    http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1432351
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  2. bac1023

    bac1023

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    Thanks for the report
     

  3. dave109

    dave109

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    Thanks for the report.

    I was about to order one of those.

    Guess I still have to wait for apex.
     
  4. gatorboy

    gatorboy

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    It's pretty nice
    Awesome report, good job.
     
  5. MikeG36

    MikeG36

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    Great report. Thanks for documenting and sharing the results with us.
     
  6. Glock40man

    Glock40man

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    Thanks for the report.
     
  7. di11igaf

    di11igaf ibew

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    Well , swapping frames and slides like that tells us the problem is in the slide somewhere, and eliminates the ejector as the problem.
    I think the problem could be the slide itself. The extractor cut out being out of spec would explain how the same extractors in different guns act differently. Or just maybe the ejection port, I don't know how or haven't slowed down video to see if this would even be possible, but I don't see what else it could be.
    If they started mim'ing extractors, what else did they change in their assembly, the could have cheaped out making slides somehow as well, or maybe there are quite a few out of spec. Don't know any of this for sure, just ideas. I just know I also have a 19 that ejects brass like a helicopter, some to the head, over the head (most 6:00) every mag some to the left and in front of the gun(what I'm more concerned with)
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  8. G26S239

    G26S239 NRA Patron

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    Wow, that sucks. I have never had any trouble with any of my Glocks. My newest one is a mid 2009 NGS prefix 17 and the next newest is my late 2007 LCZ prefix 26. I was pretty much done buying Glocks with that 2009 purchase and this happy horse shiite emphasizes that point for me. Fortunately HKLI you at least know that Saint Gaston did not even come close to designing the first good gun. There is plenty of other stuff to use in lieu of that 17 after you shiite can it. Sorry you have to deal with this.
     
  9. Doughnutman_923

    Doughnutman_923

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    Very interesting. I am with you too as it may be a slide problem. I bought an older NON-LCI 90 degree extractor and spring loaded bearing and extraction is slightly better. (no left ejections anymore) but out of 400 rounds I've had about 15-25 BTF and over my head. Got hit in the mouth once. (brings new meaning to eating brass)

    Ammo was:

    200 Winchester NATO
    100 American Eagle <---Performed the worst.
    100 Federal Champion
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  10. larson1122

    larson1122

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    Thanks for the report. Sounds like it's about time to cut your losses and dump that thing if Glock can't fix it this time. I feel your pain, I'm getting darn close to getting rid of my 26 for the same reasons. Good luck :wavey:
     
  11. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME

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    Nice write up.
    Interesting thoughts & observations.
     
  12. frostyicy

    frostyicy

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    So how about the apex extractor....is that the end all be all?

    Meaning if that doesn't fix the erratic ejection, btf problem that these Glocks with the problem are considered un-fixable???

    I see many saying that it may be some problems with the slide now....yet I believe at this point we should not continue making too many excuses from the so-called Glock "perfection".

    I understand t/s willing to accept a basically refurb like new glock....but honestly if the gun he purchased was new, he should get the exact model he paid for new with no problems. Like it should have been initially.
     
  13. Paul53

    Paul53 Scream catcher

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    Confused. You bought an "OEM" extractor? Isn't that the same as a stock extractor?
     
  14. dave109

    dave109

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    Hi Paul53,

    If I have my facts correct, he bought a new extractor being produced by Glock that does not have the dip.
     
  15. HKLovingIT

    HKLovingIT Resident Evil

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    Hi Paul,

    That is correct. When I noted it was OEM it was to say that this extractor I was trying was a Glock manufactured part and not a 3rd party one like Lone Wolf.

    The extractor it came with from the store was a dipped (which I do have a g26 model with dip that works fine). This G17 however had sprinkler ejection from magazine one back when I bought it in 3/2012

    I tried another spare extractor that I had here in my parts tub to see if it would stop. No good.

    I sent it back to Glock, off the top of my head close to or somewhere beyond the 1000 round mark. They replaced the extractor and I believe the trigger housing, etc. It got better but still did it.

    A couple thousand rounds later...and a few months...

    It was reported that a new production Glock 9mm extractor had hit the channel and could be had from Midway and I believe Glockparts.com Trackstar55 tried one out and got a good result.

    I decided to try one also and see if that would stop the erratic ejection on my Gen3 G17.

    This report and the previous one catalog what happened over the course of 1000 rounds with the new extractor in it.

    I was hoping it would finally correct the BTF issues with this pistol.

    It didn't.

    I think there is something boogered with the slide on this one. Sending it back to Glock to hopefully get an exchange. It's had four extractors and one trip to Glock and still does it.

    :dunno:

    But $250 dollars later (ammo+parts) I thought it would be worth sharing my latest experiment. Been trying to get it solved on this one pistol since I got it in March. :wavey:

    My opinion:

    If a Glock doesn't do it from the start, and keeps being good after the 500-1000 round mark, you'll probably never have a problem.

    If a Glock you have did it from day one, I don't think any amount of parts swapping is going to fix it.

    There's just nothing left to swap on mine, except for a new Glock.

    I would like it solved because I like the G17. I don't really want to sell this one or trade it in at the store if I have another choice because I don't want it to become someone else's problem. I would feel like crap knowing I traded it in and some guy bought it and maybe it was his only pistol and then he had to deal with it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  16. Nanuk

    Nanuk

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    I would think it is the ejector, the extractor merely pulls the empty from the chamber.
     
  17. HKLovingIT

    HKLovingIT Resident Evil

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    I agree it could have been that as well. I had previously replaced the trigger housing, but no change.

    Also this slide when put on the frame of another G17 that has no issues, continues to do it. :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  18. larson1122

    larson1122

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    The problem is in the slide assembly, not in the frame. He said he swapped slides on multiple G17's, one with ejection problems, and one without problems. Doing so showed that the ejection issues are due to something in the slide assembly. Yes it is possible the ejector could cause the same issues but swapping slides between guns pretty much eliminated that possibility.

    Edit: HK beat me to it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  19. Deputy

    Deputy Millennium Member

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    Thanks for an excellent report. I am wondering...has anyone sent their Glocks with problems like this to somewhere OTHER THAN Glock? Like a Glock gunsmith? After 1-2 times going back to Glock, I would try a Glock gunsmith and explain the problems and ask if he can fix them. I know it isn't free like sending it to the factory, but maybe you could find a knowledgeable gunsmith that could actually fix things. Just a thought. :)
     
  20. Glock_en_speil

    Glock_en_speil

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    This is EXACTLY the way I feel too. I've been waiting for a lawyer to file class action suit against Glock and force them to either replace our troubled guns, buy them back or give us a coupon for a free or heavily discounted Gen 5 when available.

    I also agree the trouble lies in the slide. Someone needs to get a hold of a Gen 4 slide that's been trouble free and one that has poor ejection and then breakout a high quality caliper take some very careful measurements.