New Houston PD Shooting Policy Draws Criticism

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by RussP, Sep 30, 2015.

  1. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  2. Ftttu

    Ftttu

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    I'm tired after a graveyard shift but I don't see a difference between the old and new policies. It is pretty much what our policy says.
     

  3. jethro21

    jethro21

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    We did training about 2 years ago on this, the reality is that moving is usually all that is needed to avoid being run over, moving laterally. The vehicle can't typically turn fast enough to follow you.

    That being said, this emboldens criminals and there are times when moving to avoid a coming vehicle is not an option. Now when that situation happens and the officer does shoot, Houston pd is gonna create distance from that officer quickly. Bad policy and bad message- to officers and criminals.

    Its just like when it started to become common knowledge that many departments won't pursue for anything other than violent felonies. We saw (and still) see vehicles failing to yield, even at slow speeds, and we are not able to follow. Now people wanting to avoid a ticket drive away, sometimes recklessly because it equates to a free pass.

    I understand things like liability when comes to shooting at a suspect driving a car- now you potentially have a driverless car, but the message that criminals will hear is that you can freely run down a cop.
     
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  4. hvyrnnr

    hvyrnnr

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    There was quite a bit of chatter amongst ourselves when the circular came out. The last I remember a vehicle itself is a deadly weapon. Now according to the revised general orders and how it reads, the vehicle itself is no longer considered a deadly weapon. The individual(s) inside the vehicle has to be threatening the officer or citizen with immediate death or bodily injury with a weapon other than the vehicle itself.
    With that said, if a vehicle is coming right at me and I have no where to vacate, by policy I'm not allowed to shoot at the driver. I guess they want me to jump on the hood of the car and roll off for safety.

    Sorry Chief. I'll take my days off. Gotta make it home.
     
  5. Newcop761

    Newcop761 CLM

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    I'm guessing Chief McClellan is a suit & tie chief?

    I get that shooting the driver isn't "optimal", but neither is being run over.

    How about the chief suit up and show us how it's done.

    Is this a CALEA canned policy?

    Somehow I doubt it. I know a CALEA agency that shoots drivers every so often, justifiably of course.
     
  6. Sgt127

    Sgt127

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    Already being revised:

    http://abc13.com/news/hpd-calling-shooting-policy-change-a-misunderstanding/1009716/


    At issue, the policy said cops could not shoot at suspects in cars unless the officer believed his life was in danger from something other than the car. It had legal experts fearing cops could be run over by suspects leaving crime scenes without fear of getting shot.

    It turns out this was not what the police chief had in mind, instead he wanted to clarify when cops can use deadly force.

    Houston Police can still fire at suspects if police feel their lives are in danger, BUT it has to be a last resort to save the officer or bystanders.
     
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  7. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Perhaps someone didn't carefully read the final draft written for them before signing it and authorizing its release? ;)
     
  8. janice6

    janice6

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    Presumably, shooting is always a last resort, for anybody.
     
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  9. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Sounds good...:supergrin:
     
  10. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Except the bad guys...
     
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  11. wjv

    wjv RIP Stan Lee.. . .

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    More likely the first version was EXACTLY what the chief wanted. Until the backlash hit.
     
  12. Sgt127

    Sgt127

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    Chief, these need your signature.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. RenegadeGlocker

    RenegadeGlocker SuperOwner

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    Tueller Drill applies if a car is coming at you. Even if you draw/shoot with perfect deadly head shot, car is still coming at you.

    But a second officer might be able to draw/shoot in time.
     
  14. txleapd

    txleapd Hook 'Em Up

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    If someone is actively trying to kill (or seriously injure) me, one of my fellow cops, or other people, it's typically been my first resort.... But that's just me


    Sent from my mobile communication device...
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2015
  15. txleapd

    txleapd Hook 'Em Up

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    Unless you can't because something is blocking the way, or are somehow otherwise physically incapable of getting out of the way at that moment.

    Sometimes you find yourself in a bad position, through no fault of your own. It happens.



    Sent from my mobile communication device...
     
  16. txleapd

    txleapd Hook 'Em Up

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  17. janice6

    janice6

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  18. officer196

    officer196

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    Off topic, but I literally watched this Episode of mash last night.t
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2015
  19. Pwhfirefighter

    Pwhfirefighter

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    Wow. Is there that big a problem with officers shooting at people in cars out there? (Sarcasm of course)
     
  20. car541

    car541 Patrol Hairbag

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    In early days he killed a suspect in a gunfight. He is not bad as far as big city chiefs go.
     
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