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New G20 shooter-handloader

Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by RDub01, Aug 10, 2012.

  1. RDub01

    RDub01

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    First time posting here.
    I discovered this forum while researching 10mm reloading and it has been a valued resource!
    Well I am picking up a new Glock 20 in 10mm next week and can’t wait start shooting it..
    As a result of all the research I was doing I discovered that it is suggested that one pick up an aftermarket barrel, spring and guide.
    What I have on my Midway wish list is;
    Storm Lake 4.6” SS barrel
    Wolff 22# recoil spring
    Wolff Guide Rod
    I’m also new to Glocks.. So I have some questions.
    I understand the reasoning behind the heavier recoil spring, keeping the cartridge in battery longer to ensure a complete powder burn and in turn reducing velocity spreads.
    And I understand that an aftermarket barrel will have a tighter chamber (easier on brass) and the chamber is cut so more brass is supported unlike the factory barrel, but..
    I see the recoil spring set has two springs. Is one for the extractor?
    What is meant by supported and unsupported recoil spring?

    I’ve e been a handloader since the late ‘60s and have loaded many different rounds over the years, including .40 S&W, but never any 10mm
    I am aware of the situation with autoloaders where the bullet in reloaded ammo ‘might’ have a tendency to slip back in the case upon ramping into the chamber thereby increasing chamber pressures catastrophically. One way to reduce or illuminate this problem is to use a powder that results in a slightly compressed result. That’s why I like to use BlueDot with 9mm Luger.
    In using 180-200 grain bullets in 10mm, there should be plenty of bullet tension in the case since they are seated deeply. Is this a conern?

    I threw a lot out at one time.. Hope that’s ok.. I really appreciate your help.
     
  2. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    My recommendation would be to hold off buying anything aftermarket until you get some shooting with the gun under your belt.

    The one possible exception to the advice above might be a heavier recoil spring assembly. I like using a 22lb ISMI RSA I got from Glockmeister for my G20SF. This is a flat style spring and is a captive setup on a stainless guide rod. I like using this RSA as it seems to help keep the slide from banging the frame under heavier loads and still seems to cycle even mid-range 40S&W loads fine. I tried a 24lb of the same setup and it really seemed to help slow things down, but it also seemed to increase felt recoil enough that I don't use it much anymore. I suspect the difference in actual spring weight between the 22lb Glockmeister RSA and the 24lb is more than 2lbs.

    On the aftermaket barrel. I have a few KKM barrels for my 10mm Glocks and while they are a quality product, I honestly can say I don't think they add enough to justify the cost.

    On the bullet setback concern, I think if you are getting enough neck tension (more than .002"), bullet setback under feed probably isn't too much of a concern. With the heavier bullets in the powders I favor for 10mm, setback is not a concern as you note, the cases are really full and the loads are compressed or nearly compressed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012

  3. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

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    RDub01, If you have loaded 40S&W then you have loaded 10mm in the short version, the only difference is the cartridge case length as both us the same bullets.

    Blue Dot works well with 10mm also as you will read this section.

    Glocks differ from other pistols especially 1911 styles, but the G-20 was designed for the 10mm from the ground up. Recoil springs can be changed to adjust slide speeds and dwell time to a certain extent. Some loads exibit an impulse that can exceed the lock up and pressures generated can cause the cases to deform and even smile given barrel/rifling types and chamber support. Only testing will show how yours operates!
     
  4. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

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  5. RDub01

    RDub01

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    Thanks for the replies.. Been away from an internet connection for a few days.

    My primary reason for wanting an aftermarket barrel is for shooting hard cast bullets which I will make myself. From what I have seen and heard, such barrels will shoot cast better as they have actual rifling.
    The side benefit would be a tighter chamber and easier sizing of brass.
    'Coarse, I haven't actually sized any brass shot in a Glock barrel yet so I don't know the difference.

    I'll look into that ISMA RSA spring, but I'm still a little fuzzy about what exactly 'captive' means or 'unsupported' as it relates to recoil springs. What is the factory setup? When changing a recoil spring, is it necessary to change the extractor spring also?

    Thanks again for help

    Oh, that other 10mm site looks great! thanks
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012
  6. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

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    You could try the loads in your factory barrel & recoil spring to get a feel for how they work. You might be suprised how well they work. I do have some AM barrels and they work well for jacket and cast bullets with better chamber support.

    Non captive springs can be easier to swap different rates of spring strengths as no tools are required to change out springs. Captive springs are held captive by the design of the recoil rod, some have methods of removal with tools others are not removable.

    Good luck! :)
     
  7. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

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    A non-captive spring, most likely like the Wolff that you are looking at, are open on one end so that springs can be swapped easily.

    I personally don't think a heavier spring is necessary. I do have one, but rarely use it anymore.

    The chambers of Glocks are looser, but that has not presented any reloading issues for me. You might try the stock setup first to see if you feel that any of the stock parts are lacking. I have found that it runs really good out of the box.

    You did not mention the specifics about the cast bullets that you intend to load, but an A/M barrel might serve you well for that. Depending upon the profile, many A/M barrels don't seat well since they are designed around factory FMJ profiles. The short throats and tight tolerances of some aftermarket designs might not feed your bullet profile.
     
  8. RDub01

    RDub01

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    Thanks Taterhead
    I have a Lyman #401043 170gr FN and an RCBS 200gr truncated nose.
    The 170gr bullet works very well in the .40 Sigma and I'm thinking it should be ok in the Glock.

    I just picked up the 10mm today so I haven't loaded anything up yet. I'm still waiting for some brass to show up.

    Well I'lll start working with it stock and see how it goes.

    Thanks again
     
  9. RDub01

    RDub01

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    Hello
    Have one more question.. Is there a need to have a Redding G-RX Carbide base sizing die kit for 10mm?
    Thank you
     
  10. nickE10mm

    nickE10mm F.S.F.O.S.

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    What others have said... work up with the stock G20. Learn about its habits and how to best shoot it. Its a beast of a pistol and will handle anything within reason. If you decide after putting 500 rounds through it that you need something else done, feel free to experiment with parts but I'd say that, for the most part, your money is best put into ammo and/or reloading supplies. :)

    That is, if you like to shoot. ;)
     
  11. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    I don't own one and have reloaded a lot of brass that was shot really hot. Having said that, if you like pretty rounds with nice straight brass, I say go for it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  12. RDub01

    RDub01

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    Ok, fair 'nuf..

    Well as soon as it cools down around here.. In the 100°s all week.. I'll get out and shoot this thing..

    I appreciate all the input.. Thanks!
     
  13. RDub01

    RDub01

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    Hi
    Well thought I was done, but I gotta ask this..
    I have read on several occasions where someone was referring to brass that was shot out of a Glock factory stock barrel as 'ruined' or 'unusable' because of the 'bulge'..
    I'm not understanding why this would be true, if in fact it is true.. Isn't that what resizing dies are for?
    Or, is that where the Redding G-RX Carbide base sizing die kit comes in?

    Thanks for your patience.. I just want to get into loading/shooting 10mm with both eyes open as much as possible..
     
  14. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

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    Yes there are what is called a "Glock Bulge"; smooth rounded case expansion devoid of distinct lines where the casing has started to shear which is called a "SMILE" this distinct line is the brass starting to shear as it has expanded and stretch beyond any supported areas.

    " SMILES" can not be repaired by any amount of sizing with regular dies or "Pass-Thru" sizing.

    Please review this section follow the link; http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1403261
     
  15. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

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    Bulges are normal. If you are reloading to be shot again in a Glock barrel, it isn't a problem. A regular carbide resizing die will size it to feed without problems in the Glock. If it is going to be resized for use in a "match" chamber, some type of pass through die might be necessary to iron out the little bit that gets missed near the extraction groove. Dropping a re-sized case into the chamber will tell you if it fits or not.

    Like Shadow said, there is an important distinction between the normal Glock belly and a Glock smiled case. Smiles (frowns actually) are no-go for reloading. In a Glock, smiled brass is an indication that it is time to back off the load a bit.

    Overall, smiles have been an extremely rare phenomenon in my G20.
     
  16. RDub01

    RDub01

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    Thanks Tater for that clarification..

    The Smiles I understand, as the unsupported section of brass wanted to leave the AO.. way too much pressure.. So are not usable to reload.

    Smiles in yours are rare because you are not reckless with your charges..:cool:
     
  17. TDC20

    TDC20

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    Hi RDub01, and welcome to the forum. I've been away a little bit, but thought I might add a few things for you here.

    You mentioned a concern about bullets seating loose and causing setback during cycling. Some of the nickel plated brass has a reputation for becoming work-hardened after several firings/resizings and losing bullet retention capacity. It's been reported on here that Remington nickel plated is prone to this. It's especially an issue if you're loading 135gr bullets, because you have a very limited amount of bullet surface area for the brass to contact. So, I would advise you to watch for this on Nickel plated brass, and especially with lighter bullets.

    I have the standard 10MM Redding Titanium Carbide dies, and I really like them. They will re-size .40 S&W, but can't be set to taper crimp them properly. So I had to buy Lee dies for .40.

    I also have the Lee factory crimp die, which has a carbide insert that is supposed to make sure everything chambers correctly when used as the final crimper (I only "crimp" enough to remove the case flare). The internals of the FCD can be removed and this can be used as a pass-through re-sizing die for your cases (resize in your regular re-sizing die first, then run thorugh the pass-through). It works quite well for that application, and makes my case max. diameter 0.422", which is what factory Starline comes in at. However, I'm one of the few reloaders here that uses case head expansion as a pressure guide (measured at the thick part of the web just above the extractor groove), and my "hot" loads run around at .0014" avg. on virgin Starline brass (i.e., not work hardened after multiple firings). So, if you're seeing case head expansion closing in on the .434" chamber dimension of the stock G20 barrel, especially after just a few firings, you are probably loading well over the SAAMI pressure limit for the 10mm. This is just my opinion, but it's worth keeping an eye on, while you still have your eyes. :tongueout:

    Good luck, and be safe!
     
  18. RDub01

    RDub01

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    Hi TDC20

    Thanks for the heads up about nickel and specifically Rem brass. I don't have any plans to load anything lighter than 180gr for now.. Maybe some 155gr later on.
    If I find some UMC 10mm ammo, after shooting it I'll most likely just load it pretty close to factory with a 180gr something and use it as a plinkin load. I will use Starline brass for most everything else.

    I also use LEE dies for .40 and now 10mm and like them because the FCD does just that.
    I will pay particular attention to head expansion with 10mm.. Really looking forward to getting started.
     
  19. BenKeith

    BenKeith

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    I bought a G20SF about a year ago and ordered the Wolff 6" barrel at the same time along with the a full set of light and heavy springs.
    I now have about 5,000 rounds thru it and to be honest with you, I see very little difference between the Wolff barrel and the factory barrel when it comes to the bulge in the brass. I'm using the Lee dies and also bought the Lee feed through die, and have never seen a need to use it.
    I will not use a lighter spring than the factory 17#. The only time I've ever gotten the Glock smile was when using a lighter spring.
    I shoot a lot of 135 copper plated with 6 grains of 231 for practice because they don't bother the arthritis in my hand as much.
    My second most used load for practice is 165 gr Montana Golds with 10.4 gr Blue dot.
    The heaviest load I shoot is 180gr Golden Saber's with 11.4 gr of Blue dot. This gives me 1,250 fps in the factory barrel and 1325 in the 6" LWB. I only load these in new brass. My 180 gr practice round is with 10.4 gr Blue dot.

    I do change to a 22# spring when shooting the heavier 180gr loads but the bulk of my shooting is with the 17# factory spring. I also have one of the little, rubber recoil bumpers in front of the spring. Not sure if it does much but I feel it helps to keep from beating the frame up as bad.

    Blue Dot and 231 are the only powders I've ever tried, BD for heavy loads and 231 for light loads. I've been happy with those, and don't care to see what the absolute max I can get out of it is, so have had no desire to experiment with others. I have heard that Blue Dot pretty much wipes out your night vision but hopefully, I hope I never have to find out.
     
  20. RDub01

    RDub01

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    Hi BenKeith
    Well I have read more than once where guys have said that the stock spring and barrel work just fine in most cases.. Probly so, we'll see.

    Still waitin on that nice gentleman with the dark brown shorts, driving a dark brown truck, dropping off a brown box full of goodies..

    11.4grs of BD sounds pretty warm.. Would you say that Golden Sabers have less 'friction' than some other bullets in that weight..Enabling you to go that high, or, could you load that charge with most other 180gr jacketed bullets in your gun?
    I've never loaded any of those.. Have some GS factory stuff.. I hear they are a tough bullet..