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New Deer Rifle

Discussion in 'Hunting, Fishing & Camping' started by ShutterBug, Sep 5, 2003.

  1. ShutterBug

    ShutterBug

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    Hey everyone. I've been shopping for a new rifle for a little while now, mostly for deer use, and maybe some pig huntinng. I'm really interested in the new Winchester Short Magnum and Winchester Super Short Magum's. Aside from stopping power and accuracy, I'm concerned about ammo cost, so that I can keep up target practice.

    So what does everyone think about these new rounds, and what would be a good choice, given my interests and concerns?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Esox357

    Esox357

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    You don't need them, standard cartridges have been around forever and will continue. They are cheaper to shoot. They kill just like anything else. But to each their own. I would look at a Sako Tikka in a "standard cartridge", the ammo will be available anywhere as compared to the Short mag cartridges. Whatever you purchase enjoy. Esox357
     

  3. mpol777

    mpol777 Feral Member

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    I second what Esox said. The short mags aren't worth it for hunting IMHO.
     
  4. ShutterBug

    ShutterBug

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    Ok, then with your advice in mind regarding NOT using the new catridiges, can I get some suggestions regarding caliber? Again, my concerns are stopping power for deer and pig, and ammo cost so that I can afford pleanty of range time.

    Thanks!
     
  5. mpol777

    mpol777 Feral Member

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    I can honestly say I don't know a damn thing about hunting pigs except what I've read. From what I've read they can get pretty darn big and are tougher than deer.

    So.... from my experience with hunting deer and what I've read about hunting pigs, taking into consideration cheap factory ammo, there's two top choices that come to mind.

    .308 and .30-06. In terms of ballistics and energy, no animal could tell them apart. There are boat loads of cheap military suplus ammo, as well as a HUGE selection of quality factory ammo for both. They can both be loaded with bullets ranging from 110-220 grains and everything in between.

    Another plus is just about every major manufacturer I can think of makes a variety of rifles in both calibers. Plus there are tons and tons of quality used guns chambered in these two.
     
  6. Keith E.

    Keith E.

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    I lean toward the 308 since you mentioed economical ammo for practice. I believe the cartridge with the appropriate projectile will handle your needs just fine. IMHO.
    Keith
     
  7. rfb45colt

    rfb45colt safe-cracker

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    Another vote for the .308 and .30-06. As has been said, surplus ammo for practice, in both calibers, is relatively cheap and easy to find. Both are available in bolt-action, semi-auto, pump, lever, and single shots.

    You also need to consider the type of action you want.

    If you plan on doing a lot of practice shooting, the gas operated semi-autos have the least amount of felt recoil. The less felt recoil, the longer you can practice without developing "flinching". The more you practice, the better you'll shoot. The Browning BAR can hold it's own in the accuracy department with most bolt actions, too.

    The bottom line... I suggest a Browning BAR in either .308 or .30-06.

    As for me? My favorite deer rifle is the .45-70 Marlin Guide Gun with a Williams peep... but I'll admit it's not for everybody. Where I hunt, you cannot even SEE through the woods much past 75 yds, so any of those super-duper flat-shooting long-range wompum-stompum 100X magnification scoped magnums are totally unnecessary. .45-70 ammo isn't as cheap and abundant as .308/.30-06, but I load my own, so that's not a factor. And extended practice sessions are brutal on your shoulder. But... when I hit a deer with that big 350gr slug, it goes DOWN... RFN!!!
     
  8. Guest

    An all around deer/pig gun in my opinion without carrying a small "cannon" would be a .308 or a flater shootn 7mm-08. Both guns are very close balistically, with the 7mm-08 a little better known as a "flat shooter" at long distances. It outperforms the .308 at distance as far as arcing in concerned.

    Both are excellent all around calibers.

    My favorite deer hunting rifle here in CA is my .243. Some will say that it's a bit too light for big deer but I disagree. It's light, fast, very flat shooting and versitile for me when I'm hunting in mountainous terrain.

    I took a hog with it last year while actually deer hunting. I had a pig tag with me because the area I was hunting was rummored to have pigs. I was not expecting to take a pig, but low and behold I got one. I hit him with a Winchester 100gr PSP right behind the shoulder in the "sweet spot." The shot was about 100yds away. The pig immediately rolled over on it's side and slide down an embankment about 20 yards.

    I walked up to it about 5-7 minuetes later. I thought it was dead when suddenly it started to "come to life" again. It grunted, kicked it's legs a bit but never got up. It finally died about 2-3 minutes later. Some might say, "see the bullet (.243) was too week on that pig." But I say, "I've shot small deer with full powered 30-06 loads and had the damn deer run away up to 75 yds before dying." It was a heart/lung shot too!

    For that pig, the bullet went through the right lungs, severed the heart, went into the left lung and mushroomed beautifully. The mushroomed bullet lodged just inside it's left rib cage area. Great penetration and expansion. Yes, I think that if it were a bit bigger bullet, it might have died sooner. I probably wont use a .243 again for pigs, intentionally anyways.

    Animals are very tough critters to stop. Unless you hit them in the brain, an animal can go on running/fighting for a long time before bleeding out.

    Happy hunting and let us know what caliber you're going to choose.
     
  9. ShutterBug

    ShutterBug

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    Well, after reading all of your posts (thanks) I've decided to not worry about ammo cost. This is a gun that won't get volume use anyway, aside from sighting in, and the pre-deer season warm up. With that in mind now, I'm again considering the most expensive WSM rounds. I'm very impressed with the performance, but I am concerned about the availability. Can anyone share their experiences / ammo sightings in the WSM rounds? Also, a suggested caliber would be helpful. (7mm, 270, or 300WSM). Finally, for those that are interested, I've also decided to start looking for a varmint rifle for fun. For that I'm set on a .223, due to the ultra cheap ammo, and good trajectory characteristics, but I'm always open to suggestions.
     
  10. Sixgun_Symphony

    Sixgun_Symphony NRA4EVR

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    For Texas Brush country, I recommend a Winchester M94 .30-30 lever rifle. It is a handy rifle to carry around, comes up to the shoulder fast, and its fast shooting for those running shots.

    Stopping power? The .30-30 has been knocking them dead for a bit over ten decades now.
     
  11. onemilmhz

    onemilmhz Ten Ninety Five

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    Glock-Reaper offers sound advise here ShutterBug. Right now these are the only two caliber rifles I have for hunting. A Remington 700 BDL in 7mm-08 and a 7400 in .243 Win. Both are tack drivers with no smithing and have taken down deer of varying sizes out to and beyond 250 yds. No pigs yet but it's only a matter of time before I have the chance to hunt them. Now, I admit, these are my only rifles because of economics. I would definitely like other rifles in other calibers but these two have been serving me well for several years now and will do the same for you. My limited budget is why I started with these two. They can do it all. I will be hunting elk for the first time this season (now that a long time army buddy is back in the states) and I thought about picking up one of the WSM guns for the trip. That is, until I studied the ballistics of my 7mm-08 and realized I didn't need to. However, if I ever go after anything bigger than that (i.e. moose, etc.) I will probably need to step up. Then I would consider the 7mm or 270 versions for their flat shooting and hard hitting capabilities.
     
  12. Esox357

    Esox357

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    Well if I had the money and choice I would buy the 300 WSM and never look back, it depends on how much recoil you can take? I haven't shot one but that would be the one I would choose. Guns and Ammo and other publications are doing a few articles on certain WSM's such as the 243 ect. I would check those and see if you can find someone that has one that would be willing to let you shoot it before you buy one. Just my opinion. PS. let us know the range report when you buy one. Esox357
     
  13. tjpet

    tjpet

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    Nothing wrong with a .223 (I've got four) but if you really want a something-different performer get a .17 Remington. Very flat shooting, extremely lethal, and virtually recoiless.
     
  14. Mud

    Mud

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    45-70 Great pig round good on deers to about 150 yrd not sure how far your shooting also love the 308 and the '06
     
  15. Guest

    If you're just starting out for varmints, don't go to extremes.....i.e the .17 on the ultra light end and the .220Swift on the ultra fast, top end.

    I'd go in the middle. Exactly like you suggested. A .223. That is perfect for any kind of predator. I've even used it on deer out to 200 yards. As you can tell from my postings, I'm not one that cares to use "cannons" when hunting. I generally tend to use lighter, smaller calibers when hunting animals.

    There is no predator that can not be taken with EASE when using a .223. If you wanted to do some really long distance bench type shooting on predators such as praire dogs, and 200 yards is not far enough for you; then go with a 22-250 or a .243.

    The .22-250 holds a flater shooting surface out to 400 yards. Likewise with the .243. The .243 you can use heavier "varmint" bullets near the 70grain (handloadings) to factory 80grain bullets.

    Other than that advice, I'd stick with a nice bolt action (Remington, Savage, Ruger etc...) .223 with a slightly heavier barrel than the norm. Although that's not necessary either when it comes to hunting purposes.
     
  16. RevGator

    RevGator

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    I would vote for a 7mm Mag. You get the flat shooting of a 7mm plus the extra punch to knock down even the toughest deer/pig.

    I think the most important thing is to get something your comfortable with. I shoot a .270 and wouldn't change to save my life even though there are other calibers I like better. I have remarkable faith in my .270 though and therefore I am a better shot with it than anything else.
     
  17. kels

    kels

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    Brother in law got one of these in a Browning A Bolt without the muzzle break. VERY NICE gun. Very accurate gun.
    Since he lives in a rural area, he has been buying his ammo from Cabelas. Nice place to shop, but not the cheapest.
    A lot depends on where you are planning to hunt.
    A woods gun will be different from a plains type hunting area.
    Any of the regular hunting calibers should work fine on deer.
     
  18. Sixgun_Symphony

    Sixgun_Symphony NRA4EVR

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    Will the WSM cartridges still be around in five years?
     
  19. ShutterBug

    ShutterBug

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    funny that you ask that. i don't recall anyone asking the same question about the .17HMR ?!?
     
  20. hodgdonhead

    hodgdonhead Inner Pimp

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    .308; .30-06; 7MM Rem Mag; .270 Win are all great cailibers for Hog and deer. Ammo is in large supply (esp for .308 and .30-06 cheap) and each of the 4 above will devestate a hog or deer.

    Here are some pics from a 7mm and .30-06 kill I remember reading a while back:

    http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107788