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need advise on aggressive dog

Discussion in 'Woof Memorial Critter's Corner' started by alemmo, Apr 29, 2007.

  1. alemmo

    alemmo

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    Hi everyone. Let me give some background. My wife and I got Baxter at the SPCA about 6 years ago he was found and brought to the SPCA. He seemed normal there, after we got him home we noticed he would go Psycho around other dogs and go after them. We figured he had a bad experience either at the shelter or his previous home.

    This aggression towards other dogs meant he had to be kept away from them all the time. He has shown aggression towards humans as well... one time he nicked my wife's uncle on the knuckle and has shown his teeth on afew occasions.

    A couple years back my wife wanted a new dog, we got a smaller dog than Baxter because we noticed Baxter really only went totally nuts with bigger dogs. Well it took Baxter a long time to get used to the new dog and they are always playing rough with each other.

    Well last weekend they were both sitting in bed with me and they got into a fight.... i put my arm between them to break it up and Baxter latched onto my arm and chomped into for a good 15-20 seconds(luckily it was right below the wrist so there wasn't much flesh he was chomping on my bones, hurt like h*ll though but not much blood or anything.

    I don't think he even realized he was biting me. So this incident had the wife and I talking about whether we feel safe with him in the house. We are thinking of having a baby in a couple years and neither of us would feel safe with him and a baby.

    He is part of the family and we've known for a long time he psychotic but we just couldn't have him put down because he was family. We are now fully considering this and have an appointment with the vet for May 8th. Is this the right decision? I feel so bad because i know its not his fault he is this way, he had to have a traumatic experience when he was younger.

    Part of me just wishes he would die of old age or have some illness that we would have to put him down for instead.

    Any advice or words of wisdom, i am having a hard time with this and still don't know if i can take him to the VEt on the 8th.

    Baxter is the dog in the background. Edgar the newer dog is in the front.
     
  2. sdsnet

    sdsnet NRA Member CLM

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    There are obedience trainers that may be able to help you with your dog. There is one outside of Houston that will take your dog for 10 days and train him and then you come in and participate on separate days to learn what he has learned and take over. It sounds like your dog is a part of your family and deserves a chance at getting some help. You could at least try.

    The vet may tell you that the best thing to do is put the dog down and he may be right. I don't think I would trust a dog like that with a child in the house even if you got him help and he stopped the behavior. You just can't risk it with a child. The dog bit you on the arm and didn't let go. That isn't just a nip but a very aggressive action. What if he bit you in the face ? I am a dog lover but in your situation I might have him put down. It wouldn't be fair to take him to a shelter where someone else could adopt him and get hurt possibly with a child. Maybe it might be worth checking out a dog behavior specialist / trainer. Like you said, it isn't his fault.
     

  3. Blinky

    Blinky Rocket Surgeon

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    I could go on for pages and pages about what you should do. It all boils down to the fact that you have a dominate agressive dog and you are not the leader. I'm just going ot refer you to anything done by Cesar Millan aka The Dog Whisperer. His methods make the most sense and they do work.
     
  4. PeterJasonMN

    PeterJasonMN ****

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    Weird. The neighbor has one that looks just like him and that dog is aggressive as hell too.
     
  5. EdTracker

    EdTracker GTDS Lifetime Member

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    I believe is was Ren and Stimpy that said "the big sleep". But on a serious note, counseling is in order cause if he'll bite you he will bite someone else. What happens if he chomps on someones kid?
     
  6. Blinky

    Blinky Rocket Surgeon

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    One thing that I didn't mention is that you should also seek out a professional trainer.
     
  7. Rollo Tamasey

    Rollo Tamasey

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    Before I was born my dad had a boxer that was always nice to other people but agressive with other animals. Anyway when my older brother was born the dog got jelous of all the time my parents were spending with my brother. One day it snaped its jaws about 1 millimeter away from my brothers face. My dad had some friends of his that lived far away adopt the dog as their kids were grown up and they were to old to have kids.

    Your dog chomped your arm for 15 seconds. A dog could easily kill a newborn infant by biting it in the face or neck. Think how awfull this would be if this happened.
     
  8. Pru

    Pru

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    He's a pretty dog, and I understand your warm feelings of family. But your words above say it all. You realize he's troubled -psychotic in your own words - even though it's not his fault. The next step is to realize that a troubled/psychotic dog is a danger to humans. Humans trump dogs. Always. Every time. It's a hard, horrible thing you have to do. I pray that you will have peace about it, in time. Perhaps in Doggie Heaven, he will no longer be troubled, but will happily romp and play. I firmly believe that dogs that are trouble because of traumatic experiences still get to go to heaven - after all: it's not their fault.
     
  9. pjva04

    pjva04 Snub Lover

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    Until we had my daughter, I thought I loved my dogs. Then after she was born, I realized the difference between "love" and "fondness". You have a difficult decision to make, but as another poster said above "humans trump dogs, every time". Your description of the situation leads me to believe I would not have that dog in the same home as my child, no matter what "behavioral training" we went through.

    My $.02 is get it over with, mourn the loss, and use this as a learning experience in the future.
     
  10. compassman

    compassman

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    The best cure for a aggressive dog is a job, exercise, diet and training. My dog Ty was a Rescue IG (Italian Greyhound). He was locked up in a crate for days on end with another dog that was food aggressive and ended up giving him a eye injury at a young age. When we got him he was underweight and had no muscle tone. He was fine with our dog Lido who is a IG and around the same age. We had them meet at a neutral territory and them brought them both home.

    When we brought Ty out in public he would freak out at other dogs and specially towards big dogs. The hairier the dog the worse he was. He would bark at every person and would get aggressive towards some people. My wife was terrified that he would get worse. She was becoming afraid to take him out in public. People and animals would set him off. We consulted a few experts and all agreed that specialized obedience classes were a good idea (I recommend checking out any instructor before attending classes). We then talked to a few experts in our breed that recommended a sport and plenty of exercise. We then got into coursing, oval racing and straight racing. This help build Ty's confident level and strength. He had change in ways I never thought possible. He has raced with Irish Wolfhounds and Scottish Deerhounds! You don't get much bigger and shaggier then that. He walks by other dogs when were out like there not even there! We train everyday "killing bunny's" and I swear he smiles when he is running.

    We were also introduced to dietary correction. We feed with a all raw diet. They get ground up raw rabbit, raw fish, whole raw chicken necks and breast, ground up beef with raw vegetables. Although, sometimes a high quality kibble is fed to them. The diet has done wonders for all of my dogs. When have taken rescue dogs and have changed both there health and attitude just by changing there diet from dry kibble to raw. Feeding is a pack thing and all get fed in a certain order. I control the food and I am alpha and I let the others decide who is second. They worked it out and there is a hierarchy in the house. Food is a great way to help a aggressive dog. All my dogs get fed twice a day at the same time. All of them get a few minutes to eat or I take it away.


    I also use dominating situations to show I am alpha. I have my house gated off and they are not allowed in certain areas. I do this to show control. I also decided when the "bunny comes out" I give commands before everything. I decided when food is fed. I decide who gets out first. I decided everything and nothing gets done without a command.

    Crate training is also a technique we use. All of my dogs are crate trained. The crate is there safety zone and is never used for punishment. Even if they do something wrong and they run to there crate I don't punish or grab them out of it or touch them. The crate is there den. The crate is a great training tool and can come in very hand. If they ever need to go on a airplane they will not get over stressed, if the have to travel in a car they sit in the crate with no problems and if they have to stay with the Vet and kept in a crate they have no problem. It also gives you something to work on with the dog.

    The job can be from working with animals to working worth people. All of my dogs are working towards becoming therapy dogs. This is there job and it's tough training. Specially for my dog Lido who weight pulls. He pulls on a leash. Ty we are just taking our time and working slowly. Dolcetto is UKC champion and working towards his AKC champion. He also is working towards his JR coursing title and is 1 years old. He had completed a straight race, oval track race and had done wonderful in coursing practice. We are working slowly with him becoming a therapy dog. All of them have focus.

    We put in a lot of hard work and time and none of my dogs are perfect and I don't want them to be. There still my pets and I love them. Remember there animals and not humans. Get a hold of a few experts and come up with a game plan. Talk to some experts in your breed. See if you can sit in on some classes that deal with aggression.

    I only went over a broad overview and could go more into detail. Not everything I mentioned will work for all dogs. I am not a expert in your breed. This I hope will give you some ideas and a broader perspective on training animals. Bunny is a plastic bag or a stuffed raccoon looking animal that squawks.

    NO FLEXI LEASHES!

    Tys aggrestions towards people is non-existint. He barks at strangers comming into the house and after meeting them hugs them to death and soon owns there hart. We let him walk up to people entering my house with no jumping and let him sniff them. We did not stop him from smoothering people with hugs. Ty is not a licker, he hugs. It beats the heck out of barking and growling. We are happy with the change.








    dolcetto winning

    [​IMG]




    TY racing
    [​IMG]


    Lido being Lido
    [​IMG]



    crate
    [​IMG]
     
  11. compassman

    compassman

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  12. Grimsi

    Grimsi Restored member

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    230 grain hollow point 'tween it's eyes.

    Woe to you when it bites a kid,(and it will) you knowingly kept a vicious dog. Woe to you.
     
  13. compassman

    compassman

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    Here is a person who obviously has never worked with rescues and dog aggression issues. Here is a person who has no idea what he is dealing with.



    "Well last weekend they were both sitting in bed with me and they got into a fight.... i put my arm between them to break it up and Baxter latched onto my arm and chomped into for a good 15-20 seconds(luckily it was right below the wrist so there wasn't much flesh he was chomping on my bones, hurt like h*ll though but not much blood or anything."


    The dog has serous dominating issues. He sees himself has the alpha dog or pack leader. The dog controls the bed and the dog controls the house. He decides when the fight starts and when it ends. He is telling the other dog I am in control, I am alpha and I am pack leader and you summit to me. Then the owner puts his hand in the middle of a fight and the dog turns on him and bites, because the dogs authority for being pack leader is threaten by the owner. The dog only knows that he is pack leader and does not see a human. He sees a member of his pack threatening his authority.

    Cesar Milan was mentioned above. Yes, I agree with his training techniques. We used techniques similar for years.

    Also:
    He didn't get use to the other dog. He domniated the other dog and showed himself as the pack leader and this is what he is doing when he sees other dogs. The rough housing is his way of telling the other dog in the house that he is the pack leader.

    There are so many other questions. Has he ever tryied to bite you in the past? Does he try to bite other humans? Is he human agressive? Does he growl when you take his food? Do you free feed (put down a bowl and let them eat all day). Do you feed them out of the same bowl? Do you have rules for the house? Is the dog fixed? There are many more questions.
     
  14. compassman

    compassman

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    There is help out there and your vet should recommend a good dog behavore specialist. If your vet can't help search for help on your own. Contact local rescue groups they often can supply you with a name or number of a professional trainer.

    If all of this is to much DO NOT PUT THE DOG DOWN! Turn the dog into rescue and they will find help for the dog.
     
  15. RockMyKimber

    RockMyKimber

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    I personally would have put the dog in its place IMMEDIATELY, which probably would have been as the previous poster said, "230gr. hollow point tween the eyes". A dog with that sort of aggression is DANGEROUS and seriously needs to be put down. I do not agree that you should throw a ton of money away trying to get the dog "trained", you have a kid on the way there goes all your cash :sad:. Once any animal, humans alike, have that sort of mindset they are like a time bomb, you dont know when they will break again but I guarantee you they will. With a child on the way I IMPLORE you to take action, if you do not the dog will end up doing something aweful to your child or someone elses' and then... well that will not be good now will it?

    Even if you give the dog away that doesnt solve the problem of the dog's aggression, it may still hurt someone else. Might not be your child but could be someone elses'. I have 2 Cocker Spaniels and a Lab and I have never allowed them to show aggression towards ANYTHING. As soon as they did I immediately showed them who the boss was(shock collars do wonders and mine wear them 24/7). There is no turning back with a dog that age once something like this is set in it will not just go away with some latino DOG WHISPERER poking him everytime he growls.

    Afterall as bad as it sounds... IT'S JUST A DOG(what can I say... I sneek into the woods and shoot at animals for fun, it's called HUNTING). You will have a beautiful child and forget that the dog is even gone. ::pREPARES FOR FLAMES::
     
  16. mrheythere

    mrheythere

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    I don't want to sound unsympathetic but I will anyway. PUT THE DOG DOWN IMMEDIATELY. I went through this scenario with a yellow lab. At infrequent and unpredictable intervals after becomming an adult, he would become CRAZY agressive. Did all the stuff the vet said to do, read all the books, etc. After all the "thereapy" he growled at my newborn...sounded like a Kujo impersonater. He was destroyed soon thereafter. Humane society was a great help.

    Don't fool yourself. Don't pass the dog on to anyone. PUT THE DOG DOWN IMMEDIATELY.
     
  17. compassman

    compassman

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    You people make me sick. Lets remember it's just a dog the next time a police dog gets scum off the street. Remember the next time you board a plane a drug sniffing dog kept you safe. The drug sniffing dog that keeps drugs off the street and keeps your kids safe. The dog that helps the blind and sniffs out cancer. The dogs that saved lives at ground zero and other tragedies. Dogs that are sent out in the woods and in the snow to help find people. Dogs that saved there humans from burning in a home fire. Dogs that have given there life to protect there human owners. Dogs that will not searching for missing people. Service dogs that bring smiles to kids in the hospitable. Dogs work with our military keeping our country safe. Dogs working our ports protecting us from terrorist. Lets remember it's just a dog that keeps us a alert of possible atomic attack through our ports of entry. Dogs do much more for us then most people know.

    People need to stop buying from puppy stores. Buying dogs for Christmas presents. People need to spay and neuter there dogs. People need to train there dogs better.

    It's ok to turn your dog into rescue. That's what we do. We help these dogs and match them up with people that can take care of them.
     
  18. mrheythere

    mrheythere

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    Sorry you're feeling sick. How would you feel if the dog mauled a young child?

    I agree to the extend you post says a lot of dogs are really helpful; but some are bad and need to go; just like people. Some are mother Teresa, but some are Hitlers too. There is no room for the bad ones.
    I hope you feel better real soon.

    Regards,
     
  19. Blinky

    Blinky Rocket Surgeon

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    It's sad to see a total lack of understanding of what a dog needs from a human.

    I hate to say this, but most dog owners, shouldn't be. Unless they are willing to learn and change their behavior. It's only in very rare cases that a dog cannot be rehabilitated. Severe inbreeding would be one example. Other then that, in the animal world there is a reason for EVERYTHING. Dogs do not just get aggressive for no reason at all. I've had to wonderful opportunity to help people work with their so called "untrainable" and "unpredictable" dogs with awesome results. 99.9% of the time the owner is the problem and that is the bottom line.
     
  20. compassman

    compassman

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    It's good to see someone with understanding of dog behavior.


    "How would you feel if the dog mauled a young child?"


    I don't let any dog stick it's face in any persons face. It be a adult or a child, I don't let my dogs stick there face in other dogs faces. My dog in never left unattended with a child or a baby. We have a set of guidelines when a baby or a child is brought into my home. My dogs are crated when new people come to my house with a command to "crate". I give a command for everything.

    Yes, dogs are animals and as such need to be RESPECTED as such.


    We have a saying for our foundation:

    "Every good dog deserves a home, but not every home deserves a good dog."