Glock Forum - GlockTalk banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Georgia gal
Joined
·
1,991 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm hoping some of you can help me come up with a ballpark figure or percentage. I don't expect anything precise. I know nothing of how to price handguns, so I'm seeking your advice.

I want to get some extra theft/fire insurance on my guns, and I need to decide how much coverage to take. The premium is based on the amount of coverage requested. I want to reasonably cover them, but I don't want to buy more coverage than the company would pay out if I had a claim, as that would just be a waste of premium. They have said they pay "market value," but will take recent photos or videos showing their condition into consideration.

Helping me with this should be easier than it might sound at first, because most of my handguns are either still new in box at present or have been only very lightly used. (I bought some to shoot, but others mostly to have so that there will be enough for all my kids and grandkids to inherit. I also have a couple of older ones, but I'm not asking about those here.)

I would give a few specific examples, but I'm not sure that is allowed. They are all guns that are still currently available such as Glocks and S&W or Ruger revolvers. Nothing fancy, and none of them cost over around $800 new from gun stores, with most being in the $500-600 range, if that helps.

Even though they are in new or like-new condition, I know the insurance would not pay full new cost for them, but about what percentage should I take off their cost to come up with a ballpark "market value" for them overall, for insurance purposes?

Thanks!
 

·
NRA Life Member
Joined
·
30,640 Posts
Yep, FMV. The insurance company will depreciate them from there.

wp
 

·
Georgia gal
Joined
·
1,991 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks. By full market value, do you mean what I paid for them new?

If not, then that's what I'm asking you guys for. What is the approximate market value for a new, but already owned, or nearly-new gun, relative to its purchase price? How much less than what it cost new?

I know the insurance company will depreciate them. That's why I think it would be a waste of premiums to insure them for the full amount I paid for them. They won't pay that amount, so I don't really need to insure them for that much.

I want to only insure them for the amount ("market value") that the insurance company would pay me if I had a claim.

Otherwise, I'm paying a higher premium to get coverage that I know won't ever be paid to me.

Does this make sense? I'm new to all of this!
 

·
NRA Life Member
Joined
·
30,640 Posts
Find comparables on GunsAmerica or GunBroker.

wp
 
  • Like
Reactions: n2g

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,949 Posts
Regardless of where or how you bought the gun, or when, go for full replacement value. What would it cost you to replace the item if it were stolen today?
 
  • Like
Reactions: n2g

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,540 Posts
Most guns do not depreciate that much and many only go up in value.
I think a fair value for a used gun in good shape to be around 80% of what they sell for new.
This is just a guide. I have sold some guns on Gunbroker that sold for a lot more that what I expected. As others said I would what replacement value.
 

·
NRA Benefactor
Joined
·
5,784 Posts
I would try to get one that has replacement value. Guns purchased for several hundred dollars can be multiples of that. NRA used to do that with their insurance. I don't know if they still do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: n2g

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,540 Posts
I looked into supplemental firearms insurance and it was expensive. So much per thousand dollars. My home owners insurance covers $7,500 for firearms. So I decided to sell some firearms I never shoot or use. I sold all of them for more than I paid new. Most were discontinued items and became some what collectible. If I had a fire or something $7,500 would not cover all of my firearms but would pay for a percentage of them. I ask my broker what about ammo, gun cases, mags, scopes, red dots, ect. He did not have a good answer but I would argue like hell that firearms are one thing but everything else is personal property.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
567 Posts
I have an extra rider on my homeowners ins. Should pay out current replacement value for the specific make and model. This does not help with heirloom guns or collectibles.
 
  • Like
Reactions: n2g

·
NRA Life Member
Joined
·
5,937 Posts
I would balance two things in my decision on how much coverage to buy.

1) how much would it cost to replace the guns if you lose them?

2) how much you are willing to spend on annual insurance premiums?

I have the NRA extra coverage and while I have enough coverage to go a long way in replacing my collection, it would not totally replace everything if I was completely wiped out by thief or fire.
But I have limits on how much I want to spend on insurance, so in my mind I found for me the best all around compromise.

I have been buying this coverage for about 10 years and have thankfully never needed it, so I now kinda wish I had been putting my annual premium $ in a cookie jar and I would still have a nice chunk of change. But I dont plan to cancel the premium because as sure as I do thats when I will need it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: n2g

·
Georgia gal
Joined
·
1,991 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
EDIT: I'll just put the update here, farther up in the thread.

Today (05/29) I got quotes on two different amounts of coverage from Collectible Insurance, and went with the higher one, as it was a little less than I'd expected. My premium is less than $100 a year. I checked on the NRA website, and the Armscare Plus was about $22 more for the same amount of coverage. I never did hear back from NRA with responses to the basic questions I'd emailed them. So, I finally made a decision and got it done on line today. :) Thanks again for all your thoughts and helpful suggestions!


Now back to my earlier post:

Thanks so much, guys.

I think I'm going with Collectible Insurance, if their quote is competitive, for a few reasons:

a. It is my understanding they would pay without any reduction for the $2,500 free insurance I have with NRA. Their rep said their insurance is supplemental to what my homeowners insurance would pay, but that the NRA insurance would be irrelevant to what Collectible would pay. However, if NRA's is also supplemental, which it likely is, NRA might not pay me anything. I think my basic homeowners pays $2,500 without adding a rider or listing anything. (If NRA's is supplemental, $2500 NRA minus the $2500 paid by homeowners = 0 payout). If so, this is a moot point. But I have no idea if this is correct or not, because NRA has not answered these questions for me! See b.

b. Collectible got right back with me with fast answers to my questions on Thursday morning. I still have not received any response (Sun.) from NRA/Armscare. Therefore, I don't know how NRA determines the amount they pay on a claim, whether their coverage is supplemental to homeowners, or if their free insurance insurance becomes part of the total or if it's in addition to the paid coverage. I'm disappointed to have still not gotten any response from them. The answers are important in making my decision.

c. Collectible will also cover accessories, safes, ammo, knives, and such. I don't have much of those, but I did just buy a Stack-on locking cabinet, and I have a small stash of ammo. I haven't decided whether to factor these items in or not. (More coverage = more premium.)

EDIT: I just went to Collectible's website, and their application mentions replacement value (which is probably the same thing as market value?).
...I doubt any of the plans would pay the cost of brand new guns to replace mine.

WP, I went to Gunbroker's site, but it wasn't helpful to me because I guess I don't know enough. Their prices were all over the place, the first half dozen or so for a S&W Model 67 ranging from in the $400's to $679 for what I think was the basic model like mine. I paid $611 a couple of months ago, new retail.

If I ever hear back from NRA I will edit this post to let you know what they said. I will also edit it when I get a quote from Collectible. EDIT 06/01: I finally heard back from NRA a week later; see my final post below.

4 glocks, I may use your 80% of new cost to get a rough total; thanks! I just know it would be pointless and needlessly expensive to insure them for what I paid for them new, because they're not going to pay out that much on a claim.

And Kentucky Shooter, I may have to compromise on the amount of my coverage, too. A total loss would be too big of a loss for me, and I probably would never replace all of the guns, but I don't want to pay a big premium, either. However, at my age, the total premiums I ever pay probably won't ever reach nearly the value of the collection. (That's not a fun thought!)

Again, thanks everyone! Your answers are very helpful to me as I navigate unfamiliar territory.

Have a happy Memorial Day, and God bless our military and veterans.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Just to take a slightly different line of thought for you to consider. Call it risk - benefit analysis. What are the "risks" to your firearms? Theft? Fire? Flood? Tornadoes? What are the kinds of losses that your proposed insurance will cover? For example if your residence is flooded and you couldn't get to your firearms for a week, would the insurance cover the loss from the flood and their rusting? In my state, flood coverage / water damage is a separate rider, especially if you are within the 100 year flood plain. (Note - 100 year flood plain means you have a 1% chance of flooding every year, not 1 flood every 100 years). Not all insurance policies cover losses from all hazards.

Similarly, how do you store them? Plastic gun cases in the closet or under the bed? Metal gun locker or inexpensive gun safe that someone with a pry bar can break into in 30 seconds? Purpose built gun safe with at least a 60 minute fire resistance rating? Is your setting urban or rural? Do you have a monitored security / fire alarm system? How long would it take law enforcement to get to your house in the event of a break-in? What the crime rate for your area? What are the types of crimes? Crimes against property or crimes against persons? Same thing with the fire department - is it paid or volunteer? What's their response time? Do they have the right equipment? How far to a fire hydrant for water to fight a fire at your house?

In terms of protecting firearms, insurance is one answer, but it is not the only answer. My experience is that firearm protection has to be a multi-layered. I've had friends lose more home firearm collections to floods and fires than to theft. All were in suburban environments and all stored in secure gun lockers and gun safes. Most had full replacement value for their collection or at least the higher value items in it. Others had collection saved by a monitored security alarm system with a cell phone data link, a good safe and rapid response by LE. One lost a 30 year collection of firearms valued in the high six figures because the phone line for the security system had been cut by a weed wacker twine and it didn't go off when the place was hit by lightning.

A final thought, as also suggested by others, is to take lots of color digital photos of your collection, including the serial numbers, and scan any purchase paperwork to document what you paid. Store it in "the cloud", a secure thumb drive, or both. Someplace where you can retrieve it if your home was completely lost.
 

·
Georgia gal
Joined
·
1,991 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Yes, I'm thinking about all that. It's somewhat of a balancing act.

The three options I've considered were NRA's paid insurance, Collectible Ins., and adding a rider to my homeowners insurance. I don't want to add a homeowners rider because I'd have to provide a detailed list and might have to get them appraised. I don't want a list and my address sitting on a desk (literally) less than two miles from my home, and I only have one gun with a value that would even be worth paying for an appraisal. (I mostly have things like a Glock 19, S&W 67 and 642, Ruger SP101, etc. Too much money in total to lose, but not enough to have to jump through hoops or spend mega-dollars on extra security.)

That left NRA Armscare and Collectible Insurance. I emailed both with a few basic questions. Fast response from Collectible, but no response from NRA. Therefore, I'll probably go with Collectible if the price is okay. They don't require appraisals or even a list unless an item's value is above $5,000, which none of mine are. They cover all the kinds of losses you mentioned.

I don't think I'm at especially high risk. Theft, tornado, or fire would probably be the most likely. I don't even feel justified in spending the money for a real safe, nor do I have room for one, but I recently bought a locking cabinet which I've still got to have installed. I have a monitored alarm system and live close to town in a safe neighborhood with a fireplug beside my yard. Mainly, my guns are worth enough in total that I'd be unlikely to replace all of them if they were lost, so I want some coverage, but they are mostly just common firearms.

I'm still pondering how much coverage I'm willing to pay for, considering risk and benefit.

I'm still hoping to get a response from NRA, and I will update with how this turns out. Thanks for all your thoughts and suggestions; they are helpful to me.

EDIT: I just put the update at the top of post #14 above. Glad to get this done, finally!
 

·
Huge Member
Joined
·
11,689 Posts
CPTVW makes a good point about risk/threat assessment. Insurance is mitigation strategy. Once you weigh the threat against likelyhood/chance of it occurring with what you are willing to lose you then figure in what you have to mitigate the loss.

The point is, it might be better to put money into securing your home and firearms better than pay additional insurance premiums over a long term. Better locks, lights, an alarm system, and/or a better gun safe might end up saving you money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: n2g

·
Georgia gal
Joined
·
1,991 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Thanks, mac66. That's certainly something to consider, and I have, but unfortunately making any significant improvements to my security would be pretty expensive, especially in proportion to the value of my firearms.

I already have good locks, a yard light, and a monitored security system, and I am home most of the time. I don't really have a good place to put a safe, and a good safe is expensive and can still be breached with power tools. I recently bought a small lockable cabinet to keep the honest folks honest and also for neatness' sake, and have decided to get some firearms insurance. That took a much smaller bite from my bank account, even though the bite may recur.

I just now took a policy with Collectible Insurance which is less than $100 a year. The same amount of coverage with NRA would have been about $22 more. For me and my rather modest collection, I think this was the best choice. If things change, I can go another route in the future. Thanks!

EDIT: Collectible contacted me, and because I have a monitored alarm system, I'm getting a $11 premium discount.

Also, today (06/01) I finally got a response from NRA, too late to affect my decision. Their paid insurance is in addition to the $2,500 free insurance. They pay claims at Blue Book value, and you need a police or fire report. Reducing the needed paid insurance by the $2,500 free brings their premium more in line with Collectible's, but the Collectible is still a little less expensive for me, counting my discount for the alarm system. NRA's insurance does reduce by what your homeowners insurance pays, as does Collectible. Hope this info is helpful for others.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top