Neck tension issue reloading 45 ACP

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Glock21sf-miami, Mar 15, 2020.

  1. roundball

    roundball This is the set-up for reloading

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    I use a Lee FCD for some rifles calibers to make sure the neck is uniform with lead bullets. To me, the Lee FCD does not equal a dedicated taper crimp die in handguns. I'm blessed with RP brass that is not a problem. In some calibers the Federal brass is the real problem. Our millage does vary. Not disagreeing, just sharing a different experience.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  2. Bluescot

    Bluescot

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    Glock 21

    I personally would measure all of them and set aside those that are too short or loose. With a run of only 50 it won't take too long, but will be boring and frustrating. You could use a bullet puller on those that are too short and I know what a pain that is having done it a few times. Those that seem loose but are the correct OAL for you could be rerun through your seating die with the seating pin backed way out and a slight turn downward with the die. Good luck

    Current Resident

    FCD are not popular on these threads but there are times when I use them with great results.

    When loading coated bullets I will most of the time only seat the bullet and then run them through the FCD for applying the crimp. One advantage with the FCD, IMHO and others disagree, is that you also are getting the case resized as it passes through a tungsten sizing ring as the case enters the die. Many will say that is just to cover up your mess ups and that's their opinion as well as mention that it destroys accuracy. I'm OK with some loss of accuracy for a round that feeds and creates no problems. YMMV.
     
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  3. roundball

    roundball This is the set-up for reloading

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    My opinion-such as it is: I'm not willing to sacrifice accuracy. That's why most of the post here talk about using old style taper crimp dies. The old style taper crimp dies are one piece. These dies are easy to adjust. Many problems can be headed off by use of a simple case gauge. My old 45 ACP case gauge measures outside dimensions and COL. Even simpler is the plunk test. Personally, I'd rather use duct tape than a FCD. :eek:

    Added: If these rounds keep coming out messed up it's time to adjust the dies.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
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  4. Glock21sf-miami

    Glock21sf-miami

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    Damn that RP brass!! Started reloading a new batch and I thought I would load the RP brass I had already cleaned and prepped. I start and I check the first round against the table and the bullet goes all the way in with no force at all... second round, same thing... third round, same thing! I threw the rest of the cases away (about 250) and started reloading with Winchester brass with no problems at all...
    Now I'm going to have to check each round I have already loaded with that brass and start reclaiming powder and bullets.... what a waste of time.
     
  5. Taterhead

    Taterhead Nightshade

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    Oh man, I love the RP cases for 45 cast ammo.
     
  6. roundball

    roundball This is the set-up for reloading

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    Our mileage really varies on this one. Checked again on my Dillon tool head. It's a Dillon Fl die and a Lyman Bullet seating die with a C&H taper crimp die. Over the years I have had no problems with RP brass. I'm set up and was loading 5grs of Accurate #2 and a Lyman 200gr. cast SWC bullet. Rounds were made with Remington brass. These rounds were shot in match afterward. No problems. My suggestion is to work on that bullet seating die or crimping die in the case of the Dillon. Basically, it looks like something is not right with the way the dies are set. Start with the simple stuff. There's nothing wrong with Remington 45 ACP brass. If all else fails stop using Remington brass.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
  7. Current Resident

    Current Resident

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    To fix the ones that the neck tension was loose, I adjusted the die down. None of the COL changed.
    Because I am only reloading a couple of years, safety is paramount. I tend to double and triple check most every move I make.
    My Bluetooth speaker vibrates the work bench and makes the numbers dance on my electronic scale. I put it on my roll around tool box.
     
  8. Taterhead

    Taterhead Nightshade

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    Hopefully your mileage was better, but I've never seen improper neck tension overcome by a taper crimp die.
     
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  9. roundball

    roundball This is the set-up for reloading

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    Nothing wrong with RP brass here on the hill. Loaded tons of them on my 550 with the mixed die set. Also, no problems with mixing brass including RP cases. As a practice, I separate brands. I have done this for years with both jacketed and cast bullets. Fired these round regularly in G21.3, Colt 1911 and HK USPC with zero issues. YMMV

    Taterhead: We got different odometers! I turned my taper crimp die in and stopped with the OD was .453 on RP and WW brass.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  10. ak103k

    ak103k

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    I dont normally separate brands, and when Im sizing or seating, I can always tell when it was a Remington case.

    It sizes "to easy", and seats like it was a cracked/split neck.
     
  11. roundball

    roundball This is the set-up for reloading

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    You and I have different experiences. Let's keep doing what we are doing. Shame face on us if we think the other is reading Guns&Ammo instead of reloading:cheers:
     
  12. ak103k

    ak103k

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    I just find it odd, that it always seems to be an R/P case that, because of "feel" during the process, makes me look at it when it comes out of the press.

    Its not just the 45acp cases either, its noticeable across all the calibers I load (most of the major pistol calibers).

    It would be nice if they all sized that easy, as most of the other brands are a lot stiffer when sizing them, and it starts to get old when youre doing a lot.

    When it is one of the others that feels like the R/P's and I check it, they usually have a split case.
     
  13. roundball

    roundball This is the set-up for reloading

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    I have never, not to disagree with you, any problem with either RP handgun or rifle brass. The only recent problem I had with 300 WSM Federal brass. This WSM is out of what is being discussed here.
    I have successfully used RP brass for 9mm, 40S&W and 45 ACP. In revolver I have loaded many 45 Colt rounds recently using only RP brass. This experience is why we differ. OK?

    Added: The Atavar is in 256 Newton. Making cases requires setting the shoulder back and necking down plus trimming. With some case loss, decent cases are made. No problem here. There has been no problem with RP brass for many years.
     
  14. Current Resident

    Current Resident

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    One mouth closed, two ears open. Learn from the experienced.
    I learn the art of adjusting dies per caliber as necessary. Most all of my loads are loaded to minimum.
     
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  15. Pistol Pete 10

    Pistol Pete 10

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    When I first started loading 45 ACP I had the same problem especially with RP brass. I had bought a set of Lee dies(trying to save a buck). Bought RCBS dies and the problem went away, no problem with Dillon dies either. I would push the nose on the bench, if it went deeper, I pulled it. No longer buy Lee dies, I like RCBS better than Dillons because of the adjustable seater stem and the lock rings.
     
  16. ak103k

    ak103k

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    Its not really a problem, just an observation. I load all my pistol brass to failure, and when it fails, it fails. I cant say whether R/P brass is shorter or longer lived, as Ive never actually tracked it.

    The only thing that really draws my attention to it is, compared to the other stuff in the mix, it feels like failed brass in the process of loading it, causing me to look.

    Compared to the others, it "feels" cheap or not as well made, but theres nothing concrete to prove that. I chuck a lot of failed brass of all makes each year, and dont have a clue how old it was, or how many times it was loaded. Most of it has been cycled through the queue multiple times as year, for years.

    Personally, with the experiences Ive had with Remingtons other products (I wont buy their primers any more, no matter how cheap, or free), I dont go out of my way to buy their brass, but, if its all there is, or its something Ive scrounged at the range (pistol, not rifle brass), Ill use it. It lasts as long as it lasts and/or is functional.

    R/P isnt the only one that I seen some issues with, but those problems are usually with rifle brass. Newer Federal rifle brass, and its Lake City counterparts, tend to be a lot shorter lived than others. Lots of split necks and cracked shoulders with that stuff, and usually in short order.

    Never had that issue with their older stuff. I used to shoot a lot of the Federal Match brass for a while there, that was good stuff.

    Winchester rifle brass seems to be pretty good and long lived.

    I dont usually reload military rifle brass anymore either, as its a PITA, but I get a lot of once fired LC stuff for free, so I load it as long as it lasts, as opposed to actually cycling it out at around 10+ reloads or so. Assuming it lasts that long in the autos.

    Pistol brass of any type, lasts a lot longer than the rifle brass and is less work. Even the aluminum pistol cases last longer than you might think. Not that I make a habit of loading them.


    Hey, whatever works for what youre using it for. Most of what I reload is for high volume blasting/practice ammo, and it gets treated a little differently than if it was for what I consider "precision".

    The precision stuff gets a little more care in component selection and prep. Thats not handgun ammo though.
     
  17. roundball

    roundball This is the set-up for reloading

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    I just finished running lead bullets for the next tribal match on Wednesday. For this round it will be RP brass only. Load will be 5grns of Accurate #2 with Lyman 452460 200gr SWC using RP brass. All my RP brass is once fired. I'll do rounds until I run out of bullets. One hundred rounds will go to the match. I will shoot my stock as a door know Colt made 1911. Actually, I'll load these low pressure loads until the head stamp is worn off. No cherry picking allowed. Hope I can post pictures here before and afterward. How about it sports fans?

    Added: My precision is in my dies and my hand cast bullets. Bullets are lubed and sized .452. No powder coating.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  18. Taterhead

    Taterhead Nightshade

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    A 200 gr SWC in R-P cases describes what I load in 45 auto. Mine are a Lee clone of the HG 68. At the moment, using 700-X since have some to burn up. I don't shoot lubed anything. All in on powder coating and Hi-Tek.
     
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  19. roundball

    roundball This is the set-up for reloading

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    I've never used any coated bullets. This is not because I'm resistant but have substantial money invested in the old way of making bullets. I think powder coating is neat since it gets people casting bullets. People who cast conventional(grease groove)bullets know or can find out why the bullets are not right. The current Lyman 357495 WC bullet is a H&G knockoff.

    Added: Right now I'm sizing my bullets .452 and using White Label Commercial 160 lube. Works great. I'm going to use RP brass on this run until the bullets are used up.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
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  20. Glock21sf-miami

    Glock21sf-miami

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    I get why those of you loading cast bullets would not have the same problems with RP brass. However, I only load jacketed and I share a AK103's observation. They size too easy... I switched to Win brass and the feel on the press is very different. It definitely presents more resistance when sizing and there is absolutely no setback when pushing the finished round against the table. I had to check all the RP brass I had previously loaded and in addition to the 15 or so bullets I had to reclaim before, I found an additional 10 where the bullet went all the way in with no force whatsoever. This happened in a 100 rounds, so the proportion of low tension necks is too high for me. I am setting RP brass aside for a day when I have nothing else left...
     
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