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Native Americans giving us amnesty

  1. Last I checked native americans were so busy killing, mutilating, and raping each other, they lost to a conquering nation.... such is history. Quit yer *****ing.
  2. War takes over countries. That's the way it goes.
  3. Just remember that there are groups in Mexico and California that see it as a war.
  4. Yup. And only one side is fighting it at this time.
  5. Just curious -- did the Native Americans ever claim to OWN the land they were on? When those Native Americans in New York sold Long Island for the equivalent of $24 (or whatever) in wampum, what I'd heard was they believed they had totally snookered the White Man, because NO ONE owned that land, or any land.

  6. Or Supreme Court justices like Sotomayer that see it that way..

  7. Even today among the older generations of Athabascans, the concept of land ownership was foreign to them and is an idea they had to learn.
  8. Thanks...Extrapolating that to be a commonly held world view among Native Americans, it sort of begs the question how one can grant amnesty to a people for violating the border of a land they didn't claim ownership of in the first place...

  9. They have adapted though. Native Corporations are the largest private land owners up here.
  10. Yep -- but they still can't change the narrative for what happened a few hundred years ago... :)

    Well -- I guess they COULD -- like progressives trying to erase the significance of Jefferson, Madison, Washington, etc.

  11. So called native Americans came from somewhere else too. They also fought, killed and enslaved each other over land and natural resources. Others who came to this continent in the later centuries came looking for much the same thing that the earlier waves of people's were looking for.
    As someone who has "Native " ancestors as well as Viking and other Europian ancestry, i ask, "can't we all just get along?"
  12. Exactly, maybe other Indian tribes kicked out by Indians should be asking those tribes for reparations.
  13. Granting amnesty to those who conquered you.
    I don't think they appreciate it
  14. Currently reading "1491" about the civilizations here before Columbus. At times they were ahead of Europe in civilization. Smallpox and other diseases were the real conquerors.

    OP, enjoyed the article, thanks.

    As they say, the conqueror writes the history books.
  15. Huh? They didn't even have the wheel, and engaged in cannibalism and mass murder.
  16. What we saw on TV as kids about the "injuns" was all wrong. Archeologists are making terrific findings of advanced cultures all across The Americas.

    Native Americans had the wheel but it never progressed beyond a childs toy. They had wars just as Europe did. Don't know about cannibalism, will check. Their mathematics was ahead of Europe by at least 300 years. Roman Numerals was among the best of early types of math, but they all had one failing, no concept of the number zero. Zero has been found in South American remnants dated much earlier than (Egyptians, I think) invented in Eurasia.
    War and disease (mostly smallpox) had done such widespread damage to the European populace that when The Mayflower arrived, they were amazed at the "tall, strong, healthy" natives. The notes from those aboard The Mayflower are quite complimentary of the culture they "discovered."
  17. I recall reading that the Aztecs, at the very least, indulged in cannibalism. They also flayed human skin for ornaments. Human sacrifice, of course, goes without saying.

    Certainly not to dis any advances that might have been made in this hemisphere -- everybody's got their thing...

  18. Correction. The mathematical concept of zero is documented to have already been in use in South America by 36BC. Around 150AD it appears in India and Egypt. The 300 year figure I mentioned is speculation, not fact.

    I wish I could live long enough to understand all the knowledge waiting to be found in the Americas pre European "discovery." To be able to compare how 2 civilizations isolated from each other would be priceless.
  19. Mayan astronomy was pretty amazing. Granted, their observations were wholly fueled by their religious practices -- but whatever the motivation, the dedication and precision they applied to mathematical calculations vis-a-vis celestial objects is impressive.

  20. In the 1600's Galileo was found to be a heretic by the Catholic Church for claiming the planets circled the sun.
    On Halloween 1992 the church "forgave" him.
    The book I'm reading now "1491, New Revelations of the Americas before Columbus" starts by comparing what's known of the civilizations in the Americas and Eurasia. The similarities in the civilizations are striking, although it's not the intent of the book to compare them.
  21. I'm always up for a little history -- I'll have to check it out. If you've never seen it, I recommend the "500 Nations" TV documentary mini-series produced by Kevin Costner. There's also a corresponding hardbound edition.

  22. Check out Fingerprints of the Gods. The author has taken a lot of criticism for going too far with some stuff, but he has some really fun facts mixed in, and it's very entertaining whether he has it right or not. Lots of stuff on mayans, ancient egypt, angkor wat, etc. This is the movie he made about some of the same stuff, but it's not as good as the book.

  23. I guess John McCain wasn't included in this amnesty offer, this just happened the other day

  24. Any tribe that ever came in contact with the comanches would probably ask for nothing but their comanche heads on a stick. Empire of the Summer Moon, 5 star book about the comanche, really great book. Man they were some stone age savages.

    From Blood Meridian, another great book, but somewhat disturbing-
    “Already you could see through the dust on the ponies’ hides the painted chevrons and the hands and rising suns and birds and fish of every device like the shade of old work through sizing on a canvas and now too you could hear above the pounding of the unshod hooves the piping of the quena, flutes made from human bones, and some among the company had begun to saw back on their mounts and some to mill in confusion when up from the offside of those ponies there rose a fabled horde of mounted lancers and archers bearing shields bedight with bits of broken mirrorglass that cast a thousand unpieced suns against the eyes of their enemies.

    A legion of horribles, hundreds in number, half naked or clad in costumes attic or biblical or wardrobed out of a fevered dream with the skins of animals and silk finery and pieces of uniform still tracked with the blood of prior owners, coats of slain dragoons, frogged and braided cavalry jackets, one in a stovepipe hat and one with an umbrella and one in white stockings and a bloodstained weddingveil and some in headgear of cranefeathers or rawhide helmets that bore the horns of bull or buffalo and one in a pigeontailed coat worn backwards and otherwise naked and one in the armor of a Spanish conquistador, the breastplate and pauldrons deeply dented with old blows of mace or sabre done in another country by men whose very bones were dust and many with their braids spliced up with the hair of other beasts until they trailed upon the ground and their horses’ ears and tails worked with bits of brightly colored cloth and one whose horse’s whole head was painted crimson red and all the horsemen’s faces gaudy and grotesque with daubings like a company of mounted clowns, death hilarious, all howling in a barbarous tongue and riding down upon them like a horde from a hell more horrible yet than the brimstone land of Christian reckoning, screeching and yammering and clothed in smoke like those vaporous beings in regions beyond right knowing where the eye wanders and the lip jerks and drools.

    Oh my god, said the sergeant.”
  25. Since I'm married to an Apache I don't have to leave do I? :freak:
  26. Some great stuff on firearm history in that book. The comanche were such expert horsemen and archers that they were just about unbeatable at first, and that's if you could even find them, since they were always on the move. If i recall, it was the first colt revolvers, not the big one but the first one, the 5 shot, that evened the odds quite a bit. The army wasn't interested at first and thought they were mostly useless, but one of the best texas ranger scalp hunter types recognized the revolvers' value and tried it out to great success. Then came the big 6 shooter which really leveled the field against the comanches' 20 shot per minute from horseback bow work. Then a little later came the first good repeater rifles, and it was all downhill for comancheria after that.

    This was the guy, the toughest scalp hunter and ranger