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My Serious Safety incident in Statesville!

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by THE VOID, Sep 8, 2002.

  1. THE VOID

    THE VOID

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    Hi all. I didn't want to post this on the debriefing thread because I feel that is a place for the good times. I am embarassed to write this but maybe it will help someone else prevent a major mistake.

    First and foremost, my apologies to the RO's and bystanders at the "M" station on top of the hill.

    I have been shooting GSSF for 4 years now. I consider myself a safe shooter. There is no excuse for what follows.
    Our day started with a much later than expected departure from Richmond, VA. We flew down on a friends private, 4 seater plane. Most of the ride down was spent thinking, "Man, I hope we make by the 3 pm cutoff!". We land in Statesville and while taxiing to the parking area the plane starts running really poorly. Thoughts now turn to "Are we taking this thing home later?". No time to waste. Pick up rental car and off to match. Get there in time, but not by much. Go to "5 to Glock" and no line. I am up to the line even before I am ready. Third shot from second mag, JAM! This is a used 17C, that is new to me. Very frustrating. Factory ammo so I reshoot with out issue. Then shoot my AM. CIV class (17, but not very well). Off to the M. They are ready for us too. Second shot of second mag, JAM! I think to myself, "I'll be darn if I am asking for another re-shoot" I rack it, in hopes of continuing. One live round hits the table and one stovepipe. I think "*&^$%#". I'll just re-shoot it. At this point I am slightly mad, frustrated and a bit embarassed. My buddies are standing there. I bring the gun down, pointing downrange,and ask for a re-shoot. They nod, Okay. This is where it gets STUPID. I drop the mag. Rack slide, which locks back, and stovepipe falls to table. Well, I see a round in the chamber. Without thinking, I flip the gun over, pointed striaght up and whack the gun. Round falls to table as I think "WHAT THE HELL DID I JUST DO?" The look on the RO's and bystanders confirm something bad just happened. I still have no idea what path that muzzle took (with round in chamber, slide back). I lay gun down, and RO politly said "Lets not do that again." He was calm and used the tone of voice that I use when I am trying keep my 18 month old son from hurting himself. I throw out a bunch of apologies and try not to throw up. I ask him if he wanted me to leave. He said "no, Lets take a minute, get ourselves together and continue". We did but I was shaking. I apologize to the group again as I left. I go to the plates to just get the thing overwith.

    When we got back to the plane, he started it up and it acted okay. We load up, pile in and began to taxi. Motor goes south again. We park it, rent a car and drive home to Richmond. He will have to go back for it later.

    I still wish I had stayed home. I can't stop thinking how the timeline looks while reviewing a stupid tragedy. My head was not right to be shooting. Rushed, thinking of poorly running plane, two sets of jams, leads to stupidity. If something else had gone wrong, something very bad could have happened. I have called others on mistakes before and will again. I think now that I should have bagged the gun and stopped. Hindsight?

    Sorry this is so long. Make up your own moral. I am thinking, "If it ain't normal. STOP. Lay it down and think. Think. Think." Thanks to all.

    Dayton
     
  2. Wulfenite

    Wulfenite The King

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    Sounds like you got in a rush, a little stressed, and encountered a mailfunction that you did not have a trained, ingrained (safe??) clearance drill for.

    Rather than beating yourself up you should get focused and get yourself with a good trainer who will give you some better tools and teach you to use them under stress.

    GSSF is kind of its own animal but Competetion with Defensive Firearms should put the shooter under enough stress to test shooters skills and find out where they need work. You just found somthing to work on.

    Turn your near miss into a positive.

    Generally, when the slide retracts without pulling the round out of the chamber you can just drop the slide, the extractor will re-grip the rim and get it on the next cycle. If that fails after a couple of cycles (usually cause the rim is ruined) that one-hand knife that you have cliped to your _week_side_pocket_ can be used to get under the rim and lever the round out.
     

  3. Fireglock

    Fireglock Which is worse?

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    I don't think Void was attempting to beat himself up, he was attempting to help others avoid a similar mistake. What he did do was demonstrate that he realizes the gravity of his actions. At this point I doubt he needs anyone to tell him what he needs to do for training and what he didn't have or do. Let's let this be a chance for others to learn and not a listing of some one's needs or shortcomings. In my opinion he showed a lot of courage to share this with everyone. Most folks would of just liked to forget it happened and make like it didn't, or found a way to blame the RO. This forum is a great place for folks to learn from others mistakes, let's keep it that way.
     
  4. Sniper 7.62

    Sniper 7.62

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    Thank Void we can all learn from this.
     
  5. GJM89

    GJM89

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    Void, you did fine. There was no blood in the sand. We all learn from our mistakes and I guarentee that you will never do that again. There's been alot of blame spread around lately, and it's refreshing to see someone admit to somthing and share it with others, it makes us all stop and think a minute and evaluate our own actions, past and future.
     
  6. Krueshoot

    Krueshoot

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    Sounds to me like you had a learning experience. Don't worry too much about what happened as nobody was hurt, except your embarrassment. Take what you did and think on it rely this experience to others as a method of teaching gun safety. Also this is just a small example of the stress you would be under in a life or death situation.Keep shooting and stay safe.
     
  7. LoveGlocks

    LoveGlocks

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    Dayton,

    Thanks for sharing your experience. This is what GSSF/GT can provide for all shooters, a vehicle for striving to be the safest shooter we can be and secondly, improving our shooting ability.

    If one doesn't go to the match and put oneself under match conditions, how else can one get better? We are all human and will make mistakes. It's easy to not make a mistake... you can do this by not doing anything and staying home... not a recommended way to conduct your life.

    Again, thanks for helping us learn from your experience... it is tremendous that you put this out to help your fellow shooters.

    Regards,
    Frank
     
  8. mike from philly

    mike from philly

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    I'm with the other posters, thank you for sharing and hopefully we all will learn from your incident. I know I have.
     
  9. LoveGlocks

    LoveGlocks

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    Great brotherhood/sisterhood we have here at Glock Talk/GSSF... thanks for leading the way FireGlock!

    Frank
     
  10. GLOCKhp

    GLOCKhp Proud American

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    Dayton,
    I was ROing at the station where your 'incident' took place, though I was just getting back from a break very shortly after it happened. I will be upfront and tell you that it lead to a goodly amount of headshaking and "What was he thinking??" But it's obvious you had the same reaction. I can also tell you that it was used as a learning experience for all of the ROs (at least at that station), presented from the aspect of "now you see how fast something potentially dangerous can happen and why you must carefully pay attention to the shooters and not become complacent."

    As all of the others have said, I applaud your honesty and forthrightness about what happened. I'm not sure I would have had the guts to make it known to all.
     
  11. LoveGlocks

    LoveGlocks

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    Wulfenite -

    Thanks for your consultation on this. I do have a question as a follow-on to the second corrective action you suggested...

    This is a tenuous situation to say the least... suppose that a loaded round is stuck in the chamber due to an enlarged web area of the brass or perhaps the bullet is touching the rifling but the slide/barrel will not lock up (i.e., an out-of-spec round that was rammed into the chamber and is now lodged in the chamber pretty good)...

    What is the SAFEST means to remove the loaded round IF the extractor method (first method you mentioned) does not work? Are there 'safer' methods to remove the loaded and lodged round than to try to pry the loaded round out via a knife since that knife point might hit the primer?

    I've had this happen in the past and was always able to extract the round by pushing the slide forward so the extractor re-grabs the rim of the loaded round and racking the slide (luckily the extractor held). I prevent these occurences by using a case pro on my used brass and chamber checking the rounds.

    Prevention (chamber checking or case gauging) is one cure but I'm asking for post-event corrective action.

    There was one time at an IDPA match where my 135 grain cclad bullets touched the rifling on my non-throated Walther P99 which likes 115/124 grain (slimmer profile bullets)... these loads fed and worked perfectly in my Glocks. I racked the slide hard enough to pull the case off the bullet... which was okay with me and the RO in this situation since we were both relieved that the round was rendered 'inactive' so-to-speak. I could then more confidently insert a squib load rod to safely push the bullet out the chamber-end of the barrel.

    Another alternative that I've seen done (in the event that the extractor will not 'bite' the rim hard enough to extract the round by racking the slide and the slide can be closed.. i.e., locks up fully) is to fire the round out the barrel into the backstop.

    Of course, if the slide/barrel does not lock up, we're back to the original situation... how to extract the loaded round safely?

    Can anyone suggest the best/safe alternatives in this situation?

    Regards,
    Frank
     
  12. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    Dayton,

    Thank you for your honesty. Stuff happens. It almost happened to me at the 5TG stage first thing Saturday morning. The match director gave me a stern warning for doing something that the RO had just told me to do. Keep cool, stay calm. Hope you had time for some cold aiming fluid after the match.

    Wulf,

    It's prudent to offer positive suggestions when commenting on someone's actions. We are a friendly, helpful bunch of Glockers here in the GSSF Forum. No one is perfect. No shooting discipline is perfect. We all sit around the same fireplace, sipping our favorite aiming fluid while discussing how to improve our performance.;c
     
  13. GlockMom

    GlockMom

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    I don't understand everything that was said (I am still very green) but I applaud your courage in admitting you made a mistake. Alot of people will benefit from reading about it. Now take a deep breathe and move on. The next match is not to far away.
     
  14. badata2d

    badata2d

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    Thanks for the post. I think it is something we can all learn from. Yes, you did some things wrong, but most importantly no one was hurt and you were able to admit it and learn from it. Many people wouldn't have been able to.