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My puppy bites, what to do?

Discussion in 'Woof Memorial Critter's Corner' started by RMTactical, Jan 19, 2005.

  1. RMTactical

    RMTactical Battle Born CLM

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    He doesn't bite too hard, he has not drawn blood but I suspect that he doesn't realize how hard he bites when he is "playing" at times. What should I do? How do I teach him that is wrong. I just don't want him to hurt someone.

    Thanks in advance for any help.
     
  2. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    First, dintinguish between what you want to allow and what you don't. If you don't want biting, then don't allow it, not even for play. Be consistant about it, so he is not kept guessing.

    Next, use the least amount of force possible:
    1. "No."
    2. "NO!"
    3. Get hand on scruff of neck, and say "NO!".
    4. Get hand on scruff of neck and squeeze the scruff, and say "NO!".
    5. Get hand on scruff of neck and squeeze the scruff harder with quick shake of the scruff as you do it, and say "NO!".
    6. Get hand on scruff of neck and squeeze the scruff harder with quick shake of the scruff as you do it and pin scruff to the floor (which also forces the dog's back to the floor), and say "NO!".
    7. Get hand on scruff of neck and squeeze the scruff harder with quick shake of the scruff as you do it and pin scruff to the floor (forcing the dogs back to the ground)and hold until the dog submits, and say "NO!".
    8. There is no #8. There is no increase in force. There is no violence. Hold dog in pinned position and wait. Submission is given by a whimper or by going limp (not dead, just a stop of fighting against you, and not trying to put his paws on top of you) or by him licking under your chin.

    Only go to each next step if the dog does not stop biting you at that moment. If the dog stops but 5 minutes later does it again, then repeat. Keep repeating and be consistant, and the dog will learn.
     

  3. 8-Ball

    8-Ball Old Soul

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    Oh man, I feel your pain. My 4 month old(yesterday) yellow lab bites HARD when we play. Hes even drawn blood on more than one occasion. Hes 4 months old and wieghs 50 lbs so I just dont think he knows how hard he bites. I just grab him by the collar when he bites too hard, look him in the eyes and say "NO!".
     
  4. RMTactical

    RMTactical Battle Born CLM

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    That is basically what I think we should do but my wife does not believe in that technique. ;Q
     
  5. fastvfr

    fastvfr Ancient Tech

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    I have trained several dogs out of this.

    The thing is, I do just what Ithica suggested but I also keep my hand in the dog's mouth - and I push it in as far as possible.

    Obviously, this approach would work better with a 'play biter' rather than a vicious cur, so be advised you may get nipped if you don't 'read' the dog correctly....

    This method seems to work more rapidly since there is no question in the pup's mind what brought on the reprimand. Plus there is the fact that dogs hate getting something rammed into their mouths.

    If that happens every time, then they soon get the idea that their behavior is unacceptable. If that fails, spray cologne on your hand and initiate play. EVERYONE hates the taste of cologne...and this will help make your point, too.

    Will soon be trying this one out on my Blue Heeler pup, due in about ten weeks. I don't like being 'herded' any more than anyone else does!
     
  6. Ender

    Ender ComfortablyNumb

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    for a dog that doesn't 'mean' anything by it, if you know what i'm getting at, i just push my arm back as far as i can into their mouth and let them struggle against it for a few seconds.

    they quickly learn that if they don't want to 'choke,' (not really but...) they don't put things in their mouth they aren't supposed to.



    another thing i've done is give a quick NO!, and give them something they are supposed to bite: a toy, bone, or democrat.
     
  7. Poppa Bear

    Poppa Bear Protective G'pa CLM

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    The technique I learned is to offer your hand to the puppy. If he nips at it quick tap on the nose and NO! Offer the hand again, if he nips quick tap on the nose and NO!! Repeat as needed, most dogs quit after the third tap. Do this several times a day to start with, then once a day, after a couple of weeks I no longer had to test him, my dog knew not to nip.

    Whatever technique you use, the reaction has to be immediate so the dog associates the punishment with the biting.
     
  8. 8-Ball

    8-Ball Old Soul

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    MUAHAHAHAHAAA!;z ;z ;z
     
  9. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Most dogs will be on the gentle end of the scale. What that means is that they are more submissive, and likely to allow you to be top dog.

    Some dogs, however, are very dominant. Not necessarily violent, but they always have to be on top. Such a dog will not let you keep your hand on top of them, not on their paws, and not generally on their body, even though they will let you pet them. Such a dog may tolerate your hand on top of them for a moment, but they will switch positions and try to put their paw on top of you, on your foot, on your hand, on your lap, wherever. If a dominant dog has a biting problem, the solution will quickly escalate to step #8 outlined in my above post. You will have to pin the dog and wait him out.

    But getting hold of a dominant dog, and getting him in a pin, is no easy matter. You have to account for 4 paws and the snapper. They dog may well fight you the whole way. I'm talking about a dog that will not yield to a harsh shake by the scruff of the neck. I'm talking about a dog that you would apparantly have to beat into submission. But none of us want to beat on our dogs. That's why the solution is to grab them and pin them. They don't like being on bottom. You hold them there, while they are snarling and trying to bite and claw you. You hold them for 5 minutes, for 30 minutes, for as long as it takes, until they submit. The dominant dog will bounce up and whole thing may start again an hour later. But over weeks or months of this consistant type of training, the dominant dog will learn that you are dominant. Not by fear or by being beaten, but more by being outsmarted and wore down.

    If the dominant dog can't be caught by you for your to grab him and pin him, then keep a leash on him (a foot long, or 5 feet long, or whatever it takes for you to catch him).

    Along with all of this is your body language and your tone of voice. You show that you really mean business. But the reason I'm writing all of this is because there is a fine line between what I am describing and the person who gets frustrated and resorts to hiting or kicking their dog.
     
  10. Perry F.

    Perry F.

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  11. flyboy5432H

    flyboy5432H Pull.Mark.Bird.

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    As previously stated, certain dogs will have a level of dominance in them.

    A good way to stop biters:

    Exercise 1:
    If the dog is just playing rough with you and begins to bite, give the "NO" command, push the dog off of you and walk away. This works best with young puppies as they will begin to associate the no and the fun stopping with their behavior. This works with most puppies and no further correction is needed.

    Exercise 2:
    Go back and begin playing with the dog after a few minutes, if the dog again begins to want to bite, grab the muzzle on both sides and squeeze his lips against his teeth, don't do this too hard, but it usually will elicit a yelp from the dog as they are surprised at your reaction, also associate the "NO" command with the squeeze. then as in exercise 1 walk away.

    Exercise 3:
    Again go back and begin play, if the dog persists in biting again use the squeeze method and "NO" command. After release begin playing again and repeat a few times, most dogs will begin to notice that biting brings about a negative result and will stop.

    Exercise 4:
    For those hardheaded dogs that want to be dominant go back and follow the advice of pinning the dog to the floor and reinforcing your dominance. Most of these types will kick for a while but eventually submit.

    The most important thing that most dog owners rarely use, other than on walks is a training lead. This is the tool that gives you control over the dog and the ability to make corrections properly and in a timely manner. If you cannot pin the dog without getting into a wrestling match with him then step on the leash as far down as you can forcing the dogs head down towards the ground. You then can roll him/her over while keeping his/her head pinned to the ground. Unless the dog can lift the leash from under your foot they'll have a hard time getting back to thier feet.

    Just make sure that you and anyone else that plays with the dog is consistant with this training. If someone else is playing with the dog and it gets rough and no correction is made the dog will learn to test people as to if it can dominate them. Having the person follow the exercises previously mentioned they will assert themselves above the dog and will not be tested again.

    This can be a touchy one, as i deal with the same with my fiancee. I was taught that to train a dog you must dominate the dog. No i'm not out on a power trip to beat up on an animal, but if you do not assert your dominance the dog will dominate you. But as i said before, if she will not perform the same negative reinforcement the dog will be fine with you, but will nip/bite at her. Basically the dog learned that it can't get away with biting with you *your their alpha* but can with your wife *submissive to the dog*. Its a tough thing to overcome but if she sees improvement in the dogs behavior with you she'll become curious of how you did it. Show her that the dog is not hurt or in pain but has learned not to bite you.

    A friend told me once "i'd rather make 1 phyical correction and have the dog learn, than say no a thousand times and have it continue.".
     
  12. lethal tupperwa

    lethal tupperwa

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    take hold of their lower jaw push down on their tongue with your thumb.

    They will try to get rid of the thumb.

    hold for a bout 30 seconds. Repeat as needed.


    A friend of mine had a Grown pitbull that had the habit of mouthing.

    He saw the dog trying to get away from my hand and not mouth the next time I offered my hand to her.

    He asked, "how did you do that"?

    It has worked with every dog I have been around.

    If the dog is really out to bite you-to cause you harm a much stronger correction may be needed.
     
  13. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    I like that suggestion. Usually I just try to be quicker/smarter than the dog and get a good grab (while looking out for the snapper).

    But your technique of stepping on the leash to work towards the pin makes sense ;c
     
  14. RMTactical

    RMTactical Battle Born CLM

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    Good advice here guys. I have already tried to pin the dog. He doesn't like it but I have not given into him an inch. Seems like I already see an improvement.

    I want to take care of this before he gets too big. It must be hard trying to quit doing what his natural instincts tell him to do. I have already noticed that he will move toward my hand as if to bite and quickly realize, "that might not be such a good idea."

    After he gives in I show him love. I want to be a good master but I also want him to know I am the Alpha male! ;) He is the lowest on the totem pole here and I want him to know that but I also want him to feel loved and appreciated. It's a careful balance.

    You guys have helped a lot thanks.

    Also, how do I keep him from mauling my 1 year old? Same kind of reprimand? He doesn't seem to realize that my kid doesn't like the dog all up in his face and jumping on him.

    I have had dogs before but not a dog that is quite this aggressive and not one that will be getting as big as this one will.
     
  15. Poppa Bear

    Poppa Bear Protective G'pa CLM

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    You have not mentioned yet what breed we are talking about. Or did I miss that?
     
  16. HighVelocity

    HighVelocity LSG #67

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    puppy grenade = a soda or beer can with 3 or 4 pennies in it and tape over the opening.

    When puppy does something "anything" he's not supposed to, shake it hard and say NO.

    Sounds simple but I have not yet had a dog yet that this didn't work on.
     
  17. RMTactical

    RMTactical Battle Born CLM

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    Sorry, he is a Black Mouth Cur. Not many people have heard of that breed but they are coon dogs bred in Mississippi. They will hunt almost any predator and can even be trained to bird hunt.

    Supposedly, they are some sort of a cross between a Mastiff and a hound, but I am not positive that is the truth.

    This is supposedly the same dog as Old Yeller. The guy I bought him from was L.H. Ladner. These are a few of his sites.

    http://www2.netdoor.com/~lhladner/

    http://www2.netdoor.com/~lhladner/aboutdog.htm

    http://www.blackmouthcur.com/ladner's_bmcs.htm

    http://www.pixelrunway.com/ladner_blackmouth_curs.pdf
     
  18. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Just want to make clear, the "scruff" of the neck means the loose skin at the back of the neck, not the front (not that I supect anyone misunderstood).

    Anyway, you can address the issues with your child the same way. Tell dog "no" and escalate from there as needed.

    A very important issue with dogs is to be able to have control over them at the moment of the behavior. With horses we have a "5 second rule". I think that applies to dogs, too. You have 5 seconds to grab and correct them. After that, you become a bully chasing them around for no reason. The average dog owner does not have control over their dog, not within 5 seconds anyway. The longer the lapse in time, the greater the disassociation ("What'd I do???").

    The greatest tool for being able to reach your dog within 5 seconds, if he is trying to evade you, is a leash.

    When the dog knows you will back up your commands by effectively grabbing him and pinning him if needed, then he will surely begin to pay more attention to your voice commands. Your "no" begins to tell him "Don't do that or I will grab you, yank your scruff sharply, growl in your face, and pin you to the ground until you submit".
     
  19. RMTactical

    RMTactical Battle Born CLM

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    ^c

    Cool. I have been doing just that. He doesn't need a leash, as he is constantly wanting to be around us, so that makes it easy.

    How long do you think it will take before he doesn't need to be corrected any longer? A week or two, 1 month, 2 months? Just curious, I am sure it is different for all dogs but just looking for a guess.

    Also, how many dogs have you done this with and has the problem completely gone away after he was trained?

    Thanks for the help.
     
  20. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Several dogs. I'm no professional, but I've had critters my whole life. My wife reads the books and has trained some puppy classes, and she does the same as me.

    How long does it take? Depends on how dominant the dog is, and how consistant you are. Might take only 1 correction with some, and 6 months with others.

    Some dogs will keep testing the situation, others won't.