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Muzzleloaders suck!! My deer season is over.

Discussion in 'Hunting, Fishing & Camping' started by vart, Oct 21, 2004.

  1. vart

    vart

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    Today was the last day of the Iowa early muzzleloader deer season, and I missed two chances at deer.
    The first was about 5pm, with a monster 16-point buck about 40 yds. away and broadside.
    I squeezed the trigger, the hammer fell, and just the cap went off:( :( :( . The buck was long gone by the time I got another cap on.

    The 2nd and my last chance of the season was about 10 minutes before the end of the season. I had a nice plump doe about 45 yds. away and slowly walking towards me. I had her in my sights, I was sitting, with my knee as a rest and squeezed the trigger. This time, the charge went off and the deer disappeared in a cloud of smoke. It then re-emerged about 80 yds away running at full tilt, unscathed;P .

    I sighted in my gun at 50 yds, and the doe was at exactly 48 paces from me when I fired at the center of her chest. I have no idea how I missed. Everything was exactly the same as the range; same powder charge, same round ball, same patch, same weather, everything.

    I am very, very, dissapointed with today's events. The biggest buck I've ever seen in the field gets away, and then I miss a nice big doe when the gun manages to go off:steamed: :steamed: :steamed:
     
  2. Guest

    That does suck. But remember,...a bad day hunting is better than a good day at work.
     

  3. tjpet

    tjpet

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    1.) Always snap 5-6 caps before loading your gun. That'll insure everything is clear. Some friends do as many as 10 to be on the safe side.

    2.) Practice offhand shooting more.
     
  4. allhowl

    allhowl

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    I only use one 209 primer but then I load about 30grs. and foul the barrel. My ML shoots much better with a fouled barrel. I just ordered a Savage "smokeless" which will shoot black powder or smokeless, whichever I choose. I'm ready for ML season which starts 10-23-04, although I won't have my Savage until next week and need to spend some time shooting it before I consider hunting with it. Nice thing about smokeless is that itddoesn't suck water as easily as black powder or pyrodex.
     
  5. Sixgun_Symphony

    Sixgun_Symphony NRA4EVR

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    I am wondering if you might have had some oil or solvent in the barrel or drum before loading.

    It is always good to run a dry patch and then snap a few caps before loading. Place the muzzle near a leaf or blades of grass to see if there is a discharge from the cap. If the discharge does not move the leaf, then there may be an obstruction. Usually one can clear it with a vent pick, sometimes though you might need to change the nipple on a percussion gun.

    As far as missing the doe, you likely need to spend more time at the range with the muzzleloading rifle. Get away from the shooting bench and practice from the offhand and the kneeling shooting positions.
     
  6. vart

    vart

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    I think the mistake I made was leaving the charge in overnight, instead of removing it after the previous day's hunting.

    The charge ignited with the 2nd cap, so it was likely that a little moisture got in there.

    As far as missing at 50 yds. it has to be something wrong with the rifle since I have decades of practice shooting off-hand and have never used more than one shot to take down a big-game animal. Heck, I grew up shooting running jackrabbits in Southern Idaho.

    The whole ordeal has me want to try with a pistol next year, especially since all of the shots I passed up were all less than 70 yds.
    Plus, it would be neat to be one of a handful of hunters in Iowa using a pistol.
     
  7. bustedknee

    bustedknee The Snowflakes have invaded GT

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    Might there be a dead doe somewhere out there?
     
  8. BlackBelt

    BlackBelt

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    I bought one of those new CVA Optima Pro 209 .50 caliber muzzleloaders to use this year.
    As I was reading your post I was wondering about moisture killing your charge.
    Questions: If it's damp out when hunting, would there be any advantage to using a condom on the end of a muzzleloader to keep rain/moisture out of the barrel, like they did in Viet Nam with their M16's?
    Would this affect accuracy in any way?
    And most importantly, are Mossy Oak Camo condoms available?
    I'd hate to have some fleshy colored condom stuck on the end of my barrel, waving it around in the woods. The rednecks in my part of the country might think I'm signaling them (cue banjo music now...)
     
  9. MDT

    MDT Glock21Love

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    209 primers! I lost a shot at a doe a couple years back w/ musket caps. They are UNRELIABLE. I've never had a discharge prob by leaving a charge in overnight (unprimed of course) with the 209s.

    MDT
     
  10. Cicero

    Cicero

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    You weren't using a CVA mountain man .50 rifle, were you? I had the same thing happen 2 years ago (although just for a big doe). I had a musket cap on, and it didn't do anything.
     
  11. Sixgun_Symphony

    Sixgun_Symphony NRA4EVR

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    I have 12yrs of experience with ML rifles, I don't see moisture coming in past a patched ball. If there is moisture in the barrel, then it is going to be from oil or solvent that should have been wiped out of the barrel with a dry patch. If there is moisture going in, then it is coming in past a loose fitting cap on the nipple. Try getting some high quality aftermarket nipples so the caps will have a better fit. You might also want to try dripping a wee bit of candlewax over the seated percussion cap before going out in the woods.

    On the misfire above, I think it likely that there was some crud in the firing channel. Too avoid this problem, one should remove the nipple when cleaning the weapon and to clean the fouling from the nipple itself. It is also good to use a vent pick in the nipple after firing before reloading to get any crud that might block the fire from reaching the powder charge.
     
  12. BlackBelt

    BlackBelt

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    Thanks for the info, sixgun symphony.
    In your opinion, is there any advantage to using "Bore Butter" in the barrel of the muzzleloader?
    Or, more importantly, are there any disadvantages from using it?
    I see this stuff advertised, and was just wondering about it.
     
  13. noway

    noway

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    { I just ordered a Savage "smokeless" which will shoot black powder or smokeless, whichever I choose. }

    I'm getting one for next year ML season. I saw one and handle it, one word Nice.
     
  14. Sixgun_Symphony

    Sixgun_Symphony NRA4EVR

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    I used it for years. Lately though I have been using CVA's Slick Lube because that is what they carry at Central Gun Exchange in Seattle, WA. I always buy BoreButter when I make a trip to Muzzleloader Supply in Puyallup, WA.

    Advantages? I use it to grease my patches and to lubricate the rifle bore before I put it away after cleaning. No problems with rust, of course I clean my weapons the same day I shoot them.

    Disadvantages? Well you can pretty much get by with Crisco shortning for less cost.
     
  15. AR15'em

    AR15'em Roll Tide??

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    Here are a few more tips for you. First, try not to leave the gun loaded for too long. I won't leave mine loaded for more than a day. However, if you must, do the following. Immediately before going to the woods, remove the nipple and make sure it is clean. Run a small piece of wire through it to make sure. Then, while the nipple is off, drop a few grains of black powder in to the flash hole, maybe 6-10 grains. Simply reattach the nipple, add cap, and the gun should go off.

    Also, make sure you don't use any oil based cleaners on the gun. I have been using Wonderlube 1000 and Bore Butter exclusively, and I only clean my gun with hot, soapy water. The Bore Butter and Wonderlube 1000 "season" the barrel with shooting, and make it a lot easier to load. However, most oils will remove the seasoning effect, and can cause your powder to gunk up. If you do degrease the gun, try to swab the barrel out with alcohol to remove any oils. I will use a degreaser at the end of the season, especially when I am putting the gun up for several months.

    Smokeless muzzle loaders and in-lines do away with most problems, but I feel they really aren't primitive guns and shouldn't be allowed for muzzle loader seasons. To me, they are simply single shot rifles!
     
  16. noway

    noway

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    {Smokeless muzzle loaders and in-lines do away with most problems, but I feel they really aren't primitive guns and shouldn't be allowed for muzzle loader seasons. To me, they are simply single shot rifles!}

    I get tired of this arguement. If the darn thing loads from the muzzle. Guess what ???? IT'S A MUZZLELOADER! regardless if it is a flintlock or a inline.

    My muzzleloader season don't say primitive "style" equipment it says MUZZLE LOADERS, such as guns designed to be shot from loading thru the muzzle and not loaded thru the breech.

    Vart,tjpet suggestion of to fire a couple of caps to clear any obstruction in the breechplug-nipple and to burn away any excessive oils or cleaners. #11 cap is pretty cheap, so fire away 2-3 time prior to charging the gun.

    Every seens I started that practice, I have never had a mis-fire.
     
  17. allhowl

    allhowl

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    Thanks Noway. Everyone has a right to their opinion and feelings. It makes no difference to me though. No one has the right to choose my hunting tools and techniques other than the state.
    I'm getting the Savage "smokeless" because of several advantages
    and my state says its legal for muzzleloading season. I will also use
    a high quality scope to get the most out of the rifle. I may hunt out of a treestand too and I could care less what others feel.
     
  18. noway

    noway

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    ;) agreed

    One thing that was mention in above about smokeless muzzle loaders doing away with some of the problems, the smokeless muzzleloaders are more prone to iginition problems vrs a BlackPowder type muzzleloader. That's why all of the prototypes and mfg'd models normaly uses a 209 iginition systems.

    allhowl, you will find that once you handle this type of muzzleloader, BP and BP subsitutes comes nowhere close to their performance. The guns are built strong and offers modern rifle like performance and cleans up well good. next year I plan on hunting aith a M10L for our muzzleloader season.

    believe it or not, but more and more smokeless muzzleloaders will be on the store shelves in the near future. Smokeless is where it's act.

    ;f
     
  19. tjpet

    tjpet

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    Most ML seasons over 25 years old started out when almost all BP guns were of the traditional type. They were relatively short range weapons (100-125 yards) so a lot of game depts. decided to set aside a seperate season for the folks that liked to shoot them. Just like bow seasons in most states. Guys that hunted with a ML back in those days liked playing with/shooting the old time guns and all the attendant loading/cleaning quirks they exhibited were just part of the game.

    You didn't see many people in the woods during ML season back then. Much the same as bow season only the diehards were willing to limit themselves by choosing a "primitive" weapon. Of course, that's why they had their own, seperate season.

    The modern inline craze stated in the mid-late '80's. I saw a Knight for $300 and wondered who-in-the-hell would be stupid enough to pay that kind of money for a ML when an imported traditional style could be had for $80-100 and shot plenty good.

    Boy, just like with $1000+ mt. bikes, I was dead wrong.

    Long story short, the inlines took over. States that didn't have a ML season before, and some that did, allowed them in the field and killed the "spirit" of real (IMHO) MLing. Suddenly anyone who'd passed on MLing before because of the time and skill needed to shoot the traditionals could buy a modern rifle that, yes, did load from the muzzle but had about as much in common with what the mt. men used as a Model T has to a 2004 Jaguar, performance-wise.

    If a guy wants to use an inline, fine by me. Some folks don't have the time or want to be bothered with what it takes to get good with a flintlock/caplock rifle. But due to the fact they shoot SOOO much more accurately and farther any game taken with one shouldn't be allowed in the record book, except under their own seperate category, period.
     
  20. RugerFan58

    RugerFan58

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    I've had the same problem before. It was all caused by the way I cleaned it before I went out to shoot. I always use a pipe cleaner to clean the passageway from the nipple to the chamber that holds your powder. I use and swear by Natural Lube 1000 made by Thompson Arms. I fire off several musket caps after I clean it to get rid of any left over moisture.Then I take off the nipple and put a few grains of powder in there before I reinstall the nipple. You'll learn to love your smoke pole after you get the bugs figured out. Hang in there and don't give up.;c