[DaleGribble]

How much spread do you think you're going to get at house distances?

IIRC the old rule of thumb was 1 inch of spread per yard of range. This of course varies with ammo and choke.

Assuming that's S&B 00buck 2 3/4 inch, which is what it looks like, I get about an inch every three yards out of my cylinder bore 18 inch 870 Police Magnum with that exact load, which is just fine by me.

I go through about two cases a year in non-panic times.

 

[berto62]

It's amazing how us Americans spend money on so many things but skimp on our entry doors. A alarm with speakers over entry doors and strobe lights at entry doors would be nice. Without those few second to figure out what was going on, it wouldn't matter what you have.

AR or AK in 7.62 would be nice but a Benelli M4 would also be nice.
View attachment 829600

It doesn't take much money to really improve the security of your entry doors. Longer screws in the hinges and a steel security strike plate go a long way to prevent someone from kicking door in

 

[cadillacguns]

Well the punks think their lives matter, so they wear armor.

 

[agtman]

https://www.galvnews.com/news/police/free/article_622fa6ca-2ba0-5469-a924-ea8382905d6e.html
The owner of the house owns a payday loan business, and is known to bring cash home to deposit the next day. So it's not a drug rip.

But someone who has a high cash business needs better home security. The house needs to be hardened so the skels can't get in quickly and/or quietly. This also happened at 0:dark:30, so everyone was asleep at the time of attack. The master bedroom door needs to be hardened as much as the entry door. This would give the homeowners time to arm up, hunker down, and call 911.

Totally agree.

Someone like that needs to be living in a house that's as hardened and impossible to breach - - at least with speed - as those money vaults where they keep and count the House cash in upscale Las Vegas casinos.

Multiple layers of secured doors, bullet-proof glass and windows, walls re-enforced with concrete and billet, a gazillion security cameras, etc., etc, ... - and that's all before the specifics of the defensive firepower that's kept ready at hand to repel any intruder(s) who actually gets in.

No doubt it would be prohibitively expensive for the average joe, but a guy who owns a payday loan business can probably afford that type of fortified residential set-up since it'll clearly pay for itself over time.

 

[Caver 60]

Yep, Federal flite control is all I use in shotguns.

But it’s a monster house that has a 25 yard indoor shot. Across the room, you’re talking maybe 2x bore diameter at most.

Assuming that's S&B 00buck 2 3/4 inch, which is what it looks like, I get about an inch every three yards out of my cylinder bore 18 inch 870 Police Magnum with that exact load, which is just fine by me.

I go through about two cases a year in non-panic times.

So you've still got to aim, or at least point shoot pretty well with the shogun. But if you hit them, the ballistics still overwhelm a handgun.

 

[DaleGribble]

So you've still got to aim, or at least point shoot pretty well with the shogun. But if you hit them, the ballistics still overwhelm a handgun.

Pretty much.

Within ten yards I don't "aim" as much as I point shoot. Past ten, I use a XS Big Dot on all my shotguns. It makes finding the bead and putting it on the target ridiculously easy.

The idea of just pointing the shotgun in the general direction of a bad guy and hitting them is not based in reality. It requires aiming or the ability to point shoot.

As for ballistics, 12 gauge buckshot is unmatched by anything else available on the commercial market for self-defense. The amount of damage 9 pellet buckshot inflicts is absolutely gruesome.

 

[willie_pete]

So you've still got to aim, or at least point shoot pretty well with the shogun. But if you hit them, the ballistics still overwhelm a handgun.

Yeah, you still need to aim COM but in the case of body armor it is still COM only that now means



Center of Melon.

 

[Darkangel1846]

Reinforced doors, Pump action or SA 12G, back up high cap handgun.
shoot for the legs or head, use 00 buck. A big dog and a security system would be good also.

 

[cbetts1]

It doesn't take much money to really improve the security of your entry doors. Longer screws in the hinges and a steel security strike plate go a long way to prevent someone from kicking door in

That was one solid wood door and it had locks/pins at the top and possibly other places.

 

[BBMW]

Unless you build a custom house, designed from the get go for security, it's never going to be that hardened. The flip side is, while it has to be harder than what it was, it doesn't need to get to that level.

Make sure the doors are kickproof. Put security film on the windows. Have an alarm with an outside siren/flasher (I don't think that an alarm response alone would be quick enough, but it wakes everyone up, and lets the attacker know they've lost the element of surprise.) Have a video system so the owners can see what's going on without going out. Make the master bedroom, and maybe the kids rooms also, somewhat hardened. Just make attacking the owners so slow difficult and obvious that the risk of continuing the attack becomes too high.

Or just have armored pickup of the money, and make it obvious the cash isn't going home with the owner.

Totally agree.

Someone like that needs to be living in a house that's as hardened and impossible to breach - - at least with speed - as those money vaults where they keep and count the House cash in upscale Las Vegas casinos.

Multiple layers of secured doors, bullet-proof glass and windows, walls re-enforced with concrete and billet, a gazillion security cameras, etc., etc, ... - and that's all before the specifics of the defensive firepower that's kept ready at hand to repel any intruder(s) who actually gets in.

No doubt it would be prohibitively expensive for the average joe, but a guy who owns a payday loan business can probably afford that type of fortified residential set-up since it'll clearly pay for itself over time.

 

[BBMW]

Sorry, but I think shotguns, especially tube fed pumps, are obsolete at this point. Limited ammo capacity, manual cycling, slow, round by round reloading. Yeah, 12 gauge 00 buck has great stopping power, unless the target has body armor (which was the case here.)

I'd MUCH rather have a carbine. The AR is the obvious archetype. But I might go with an IWI X95. I like the bullpup combination of short OL length for inside work and full 16" barrel for full velocity with 5.56x45mm ammo.

Reinforced doors, Pump action or SA 12G, back up high cap handgun.
shoot for the legs or head, use 00 buck. A big dog and a security system would be good also.

 

[tango44]

Toooooo much talking for my taste!
4,6,8 or what ever invaders YOU HAVE TO BE READY WITH WHAT YOU HAVE ON HAND! SHOTGUN, AR, PISTOL, REVOLVER IT'S YOUR HOME AND YOU HAVE TO DIE DEFENDING YOUR FAMILY AND WHAT IT'S YOURS!
Simple as that!

 

[BBMW]

We're talking BEFORE the fact, using the case in question as a learning tool. This is valid.

But yes, when the S does HTF, you've got what you've got, and have to fight with that. The point is to make sure what you have is what you'll need.

Toooooo much talking for my taste!
4,6,8 or what ever invaders YOU HAVE TO BE READY WITH WHAT YOU HAVE ON HAND! SHOTGUN, AR, PISTOL, REVOLVER IT'S YOUR HOME AND YOU HAVE TO DIE DEFENDING YOUR FAMILY AND WHAT IT'S YOURS!
Simple as that!

 

[willie_pete]

Sorry, but I think shotguns, especially tube fed pumps, are obsolete at this point. Limited ammo capacity, manual cycling, slow, round by round reloading. Yeah, 12 gauge 00 buck has great stopping power, unless the target has body armor (which was the case here.)

I'd MUCH rather have a carbine. The AR is the obvious archetype. But I might go with an IWI X95. I like the bullpup combination of short OL length for inside work and full 16" barrel for full velocity with 5.56x45mm ammo.

You evidently missed my post # 82.

 

[MtnBiker]

claymores?

 

[willie_pete]

claymores?

Well, I guess if you were really good with it, it would be OK.

 

[RC22]

What part of the country are you in?

Central Ohio near Columbus. Things are not getting any better. Seems there is no boundaries anymore and people do not respect the rule of law.

 

[BBMW]

Jery Michulek with a 4' long heavily tricked out shotgun, and I'm guessing not firing SD loads.

I'll stick with a carbine.

You evidently missed my post # 82.

 

[Micad]

The 12 gauge would also send a message to discourage anyone following behind the first guy through the door.

I have said this before, but it is especially true with the BLM crowd as it pertains to this discussion:
The ones in the back tend to loose their convictions when they have to climb over the bodies of the ones that were in front.

 

[walkinguf61]

The best defense against something like this simply not become the target.

Guys who tend to do this are often smart and plan well. Some are even military trained. You have to think as if you were planning to do such a thing. They often plan, train and practice for their robberies.
A ram on my front door and they are inside. Same with the widows etc. Not much different than a police entry team.

In a forced dynamic entry, I wouldn’t have much time to wake up and arm myself before they are already at the bedroom doors. I might be able to get between my kids rooms and the threat but doubtful. I don’t think most people understand how fast such entries are. Police use them on high risk warrants with people who are expecting trouble and overwhelm them without firing a shot in most cases. Including drug houses with no windows and steel barricades doors.
In normal conditions, my home and most homes can only harden so much in the United States.

Go stay in a home in Italy. Most of the homes have Physical security measures that a security expert would dream of with a sense of style my wife would allow. Security shutters on the windows double as window blinds. The doors on the new homes have locking bolts on all sides of the door when engaged.

The security film on the windows and the doors here fail to live up to their standards.

My home security is based around the common threat of a quick burglary crew ( those who aren’t looking for or expecting armed resistance).

And my biggest security asset are my good neighbors who are armed and willing to help ( retired LE like myself). It would be the wrong block to do such a thing. It would be like the townspeople of Coffeyville vs the Dalton gang.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-dalton-gang-is-wiped-out-in-coffeyville-kansas

If a stranger is on the block, you should see how many people are looking out their windows to see what is going on.