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Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by HerrGlock, Jul 8, 2013.
That is the rights of the property owner if the do not want weapons on their property. However , private businesses will be only hurting their profits by limiting their customer base .
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I'd prefer customers that haven't passed an extensive background check too
I've already had to have the "I'm sorry but this is the end of our customer/business relationship." conversation with one store owner over one of these. I anticipate more. You have the right to request people not carry a weapon on your property, however any time you run a business open to the public, you are also creating a place of public gathering, and if you demand that individuals disarm themselves in order to enter, and then do not provide some measure of security to compensate for their disarmament, then you are creating a hazard to all those who enter your place of business.
This is to prevent open carriers from entering businesses, right?
Do they believe that the bad guys that are already patronizing their businesses, carrying concealed, illegally, are going to start open carrying? Yeah, right...
Will open carriers drive away those who choose to not accept responsibility for their own personal safety? If they feel shame and embarrassment, perhaps, but that is their call.
Will businesses post to prevent employees from OCing? Can they under MS law?
Give it time. Like everywhere else, there will be some growing pains. Then all will get back to normal - well, there will be some who will push the envelop, make the headlines, file the lawsuits...
The sign printer profiting from this claims to be a big second amendment supporter.
Oh yeah, and Obama is again gun salesman of the year.
Suggest to him that he should take the money from selling those signs and print "OPEN CARRY Welcome Here" signs and sell them at cost to businesses who respect the Constitution.
Mostly yes. It also is to prevent concealed carriers from entering unless they have the enhancement and additional training. Then those signs do not apply. IIRC, a recent MS AG opinion also states that there is no violation of the law if an open carrier enters a business that is posted. The violation occurs if the open carrier refuses to leave when asked/told/ordered to and then it's a trespass violation. The same AG opined that it was lawful to open carry a rifle or shotgun as well. What do you want to bet that we see some people attempting that since these signs state pistol or revolver or at least several of the ones I've seen do.
MS is a right to work state. Most employers will cover this in an employee handbook. If disallowed the employee can be terminated but still not violate the law.
Same as when CCW went in during the past 10 years or so.
Signs EVERYWHERE. OH, WI, KS, etc.
Then a year later, a smattering of signs stayed up. If you're really curious, watch all the places with signs, make notes as you walk down the street then a year later go back down the street with your lists and see how many are still there.
also signs everywhere in Arizona.
go here to check it out
I tried to read the lettering on the signs in the photo -- do the signs make the distinction you've made about those with the enhanced permit ??
I've seen several around here. Some make the distinction between OC and legal concealed carry. I've seen some that say no concealed pistols or revolvers. The latter is what what the MS Association of Chiefs of police are pushing. I have not seen any signs that make the distinction between regular and enhance carry.
I've included the link to the picture of facebook the Association is promoting.
I like this sign from a Texas bank.
Here is what's going on with the signs in Mississippi. The police departments are pressuring business owners to post signs. Some departments have made signs with public funds and are taking them to business owners. These signs are clever. They mention the no weapons allowed and then reference the Mississippi code for trespassing. These signs are designed to keep everyone with a weapon out even if you conceal carry and have the enhanced carry permit. It's been a madhouse in Mississippi now for over a week. It's just plain shameful is the best way to describe it.
HB 2 was supposed to clarify what is concealed carry and remove the "grey" area, and therefore over riding a previous precedent regarding being "concealed in whole or in part," and in doing so, clarified open carry as legal since nothing in the MS constitution prohibits open carry. This is how it has been explained to me. Someone help me if I got that wrong!
According to MS code 97-37-7, MS enhance conceal carry can lawfully carry anywhere in the state except for 1)courtrooms with court in session, 2)LEO offices, 3)jails/detention facilities, and 4)places of nuisances (fed property is a given). That code allows an enhanced CCW carrier to carry past a "No Guns" sign and anywhere else in the state with the exception of the 4 places listed above without being in violation of any FIREARMS laws. But you must leave at the request of the property owner or face trespassing charges.
Now the new "grey" area as I understand it is, by walking past the "NO Guns" sign, does the property owner still have to "ask" an Enhanced CCW to leave or will you be automatically charged with trespassing for walking past the sign? As stated, walking past the sign is not a firearms law violation with the Enhancement, but could be a trespassing charge. This also applies to law enforcement when not on duty, as per the AG. It has come down to a discussion of a property owners rights. But in my mind, concealed is concealed and I await some further clarification so I can make any adjustments to how and where I carry if needed.
I think it boils down to open carry being a new and foreign idea to some. I personally will not open carry as I prefer conceal carry, but that will be MY choice should the law take affect. I would like to see folks have a choice. YMMV
The sign that the associations is promoting is interesting. It references MS code 45-9-101. Wouldn't an Enhanced permit per MS code 97-37-7 be legal since 97-37-7 seems to trump 45-9-101 in the allowable places to conceal carry?
Just an honest question.
We don't know what the hell is really going on in Mississippi right now. I have an enhanced permit and I would never consider open carry. The thing is about these signs is that take for instance, Biloxi Police Department made signs that reference the code for trespassing in them. Right now the question is since the trespassing code is on their sign, is the sign your warning that you should not cross. They have said on the news you would be arrested for trespassing and your weapon would be seized temporarily. I am not so sure it would stick but I am not dumb enough to be the test case.
Forgot to mention that the sign you have a link to does not matter to me. With an enhanced permit I can legally walk right past that one. If someone notices me carrying, that would never happen, they can ask me to leave, and I have to comply. It's the Biloxi Mississippi signs that are the possible problem. They say the no weapon thing and trespassing then the ms code for trespassing is at the bottom of the sign.
Please don't conflate Right to Work with At-Will Employment. RTW only relates to forced union membership in order to hold a job. At-Will means you can be released from your job for absolutely any or no reason at all with no notice with no recourse with the exception of federal discrimination laws or normal contract law.
I'll take some exception here in the case of KS. I go there due to family and business fairly often so I've noticed the signs have persisted well beyond my experience in OK. I suspect this is because the sign has the law behind it rather than a simple trespass notice.
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The MS "enhanced license" is on one hand, nonsensical - at least to us in states that have to get training just to get a license, and on another hand common sense on strictly limiting the areas restricted to concealed carriers.