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Discussion in 'Tactical Shotguns' started by Landmonster, Nov 14, 2012.
Go with the Mossberg 590A1 that holds 8+1.
You'll thank me.
Currently, I'm leaning towards the Mossberg 590a1 based on:
Better ergonomics of controls
Not to open a huge can of worms....
What makes a Benelli a better choice for home-defense than either of these 2 guns?
Is semi-auto really a more prudent choice than a pump-action shotgun for home-defense?
It's like asking if chocolate is better than vanilla.
For me, I go with the Mossberg, mostly because of the tang safety. I've shot a lot of skeet and trap with Red Labels that have the tang safety, so it's a reflex action for me to thumb the safety off on the way up to the shoulder. The cross bolt deal with the Remington is tough for me to get used to, just like the one on my Benelli Super-Nova that will be going on sale when I get home. Nice gun, but just not for me and I've already "replaced" it with a 590.
2 cents from a person who used Mossbergs in the military and Remingtons as a police officer and as a person who owned both at home. And on a side note I also owned a both shotguns in semiauto. (Remington 1187 and a Mossberg 930SPX tactical)
A bad guy stopped by a shotgun will never know what killed him. Both are reliable, combat proven, devastating, versatile and intimidating.
Here is what I have figured out over the years...
aluminum receiver, landing gear is also aluminum, nuff said.
ambidextrous tang safety
slide release behind the trigger guard
shell elevator bar retracts into the receiver when loading ammo
590 model has the infamous bayonet mount!
steel receiver, nuff said.
traditional cross bar safety (non ambidextrous)
slide release is located in front of the trigger guard
spring loaded load gate that pushes back on your finger when loading
Everything else from here can be changed. furniture, sights, accessories, slings, finish etc etc.
I like both and I am proficient with both. That being said, both need alot of practice/training to be proficient under stress adrenaline and fear.
Malfunctions will often be operator error and not a failure of the shotgun. But they are man made machines and parts do break under hard use so train to fix the problem and always have a NY reload.
Personal preference? I lean a bit more towards the Mossberg for its ambi safety and retracting elevator bar. My fingers have been pinched pretty bad under stress with the 870 but thats more of an operator issue.
1.) I got nothin. Either way, it's cheaper, and bullet-proof. Both these guns are rock solid, all the time. I've seen em break, but it's always amazing.
2.) If you've tested and patterned your load to know it will always cycle in that gun when you need it, it's not a bad choice. Alot of them are also sensitive to your hold to cycle reliable. A pump, however, can easily be fired from any awkward position, and will cycle reliably with about any load your going to stick in it. I use a semi-auto for HD, it's what I have. I definitely wouldn't feel inadequate with a 500 or 870, at all.
Why is a semi-auto rifle superior to a pump action or lever action rifle for HD?
Prudent? Based on what criteria? Cost--certainly not. Awesome reliability, tough, super high quality firearm? Sure... Manual of arms is only slightly different than a pump. Not harder--just different. Easier to switch ammo too.
Your reply, while interesting, is a bit confusing. Can you clarify what you are saying or trying to say? I value most opinions and appreciate it.
I think you mistyped. The Remington safety is behind the trigger guard, the slide release is in front.
Good catch. I did mess up. I fixed it now.
Additionally, for those who might be interested...I found that the Benelli SuperNova Tactical actually had some of the best of both worlds when it came to features.
It had some features of a Mossberg (retracting load gate) and a Remington (slide release forward of the trigger) and a Winchester 1300 (rotating 3 lug bolt head) and a durable polymer coating like a Glock mag.
Perfect example of what the OP was wanting to do. Sad thing is the 7615 Patrol rifle was discontinued due to flat sales.. As Ace said it is an 870 but in rifle caliblers. This weapon was built for LEO who would then have the same weapons system in a long gun. The .223 takes AR mags but the .308 takes the 7600 mag.
Last time I was at the factory they offered to Certify us on the 7615 if we came to class early. I did. Have yet to see one being used or have one come in for work but I find it interesting that they offered the Armorers Certifcation for a Discontinued weapon. Makes me think it might be coming back.
When I was looking at buying a shotgun for 3 gun and HD , I tried the 870 and mossbergs. I shot both well but went to the mossberg 500 because of the safety. But either one would have worked well.
I see them as both being perfectly viable but I will only choose Mossberg for myself due to the ambi safely as I'm a lefty. Couldn't be happier with my 930 SPX, except that I stepped on my magazine spring last week while cleaning lol.
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Just rip that lid clean off...
The Marine Corp certainly likes the Benelli M4 and so do I! The thing is magnificent.
The only potential problem with the pump action shotgun is short stroking under pressure. With training, it won't happen so there's no point in considering it. Except...
How many people actually train with their shotguns? Around here, short barrel and pistol grip shotguns are not even allowed on the trap/skeet range. They're also not allowed at many gun clubs. In fact, about the only place they are allowed is in the pits of my not-so-local action pistol range. Not everybody is going to be able to practice enough to be really competent and the pump action is just one more factor.
For a person to truly master a pump gun, it might take a thousand rounds or more. For a semi-auto, it won't take nearly as long. There just isn't as much muscle memory to build up. Most people want to fire a box or two and call it good. They stuff the shotgun under the bed and hope for the best. Let's face it, shooing 00 buck is not all that much fun and it gets pretty expensive. Sure, you can shoot Wally World target loads but that isn't the same thing.
Earlier in this thread I mentioned that I couldn't come up with a single scenario where I would use a shotgun for CQB inside a house. I haven't changed my opinion. So...
Sights? On a shotgun? Why?
First of all, any type of sight is useless unless the weapon is shouldered. Therefore any scenario where the gun is fired off the shoulder, sights don't even come into play. Second, if the weapon is shouldered properly, there is no need for a rear sight. Trying to align the front post in the nifty little ring is a waste of time. Your cheek is the rear sight and a simple bead up front is all that is required.
Maybe the V style rear (deer) sights are workable but those tacti-cool ghost rings are a PITA.
My latest 870 Tactical and my M4 both have ghost ring sights. I really wish they didn't. That type of sight is just too slow. My very old 870 Police has a simple bead up front and that's the sight arrangement I prefer. It's fast on target.
I can hit tactical sized targets at 50 yards with a simple bead sight and I don't believe in shooting a shotgun beyond that distance. If I want to reach out, I'll use a rifle.
I think folks tend to overthink the CQB thing. I'm not certain that a shotgun even applies inside a house, I don't think they can practice enough to stay proficient with any shotgun, much less a pump gun, and I don't see any advantage to ghost ring sights.
I shoot at least 100 times more pistol ammo than shotgun. I have both but for SD, I prefer the handgun.
But I'm in the minority...
Would you say there's no need for a shotgun for HD if you own a pistol and/or AR15 rifle?
Isn't your firearm NEED going to be based on your particular set of circumstances and expectations when it comes to a "home defense" situation? A pistol, rifle or shotgun may be perfect for you, or a combination of them, however you need to assess, make a plan and determine how you intend to use it.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmdMNwSxEcs"]Mossberg 590 A1 - YouTube[/ame]
I don't know how relevant this is but I bought a new Remington semi auto last year and had nothing but trouble with it. It was replaced with a new gun and it has the same issues but to a lesser degree. I'm not sure todays Remington is making guns of the same quality that they used to. Or maybe I've just had really bad luck. I have had the opportunity to shoot two Mossburgs and they have worked flawlessly, but the old Rems that I have do too.
There is no need for a lot of things in life, but there may be a "purpose" to them.
If you never had to use a pistol or an AR, it would make a case that you didn't "need" them either.
Quoted for truth...........