Glock 19 Mos and absolute cowitnessing rds

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by 555R, Apr 3, 2017.

  1. 555R

    555R

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  2. jnichols2

    jnichols2

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    If you see the dot on the target, and not the sights, you are following my advice.
    You are correct to "focus" on the target, but "concentrate" on both.

    I didn't say ignore the target, I said ignore the sights.
    If you ignore the dot, you will be "point shooting".
    Dot on target -- you concentrate on both.
    If you ignore the dot, don't pay extra for it.
     

  3. MisterHelix

    MisterHelix

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    With due respect, sir, I as referring to the comment regarding "concentrate on the DOT".

    You're right, though, "ignore the dot" was an overstatement on my part, I don't actually "ignore" the dot, but I don't look at the dot directly, either.

    My intent was to describe shifting the ~focus~ from the dot to the target.

    I rely on the "index + dot confirmation" for shooting at speed within 25 yards, and only use a more conscious consideration of the dots specific location when I require higher levels of precision (eg 25-75 yard shots, or CNS specific shots at closer ranges)

    FWIW, the RM02 in a milled slide with Ameriglow black suppressor height sights co-witness like so:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
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  4. WVSurveyor

    WVSurveyor

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    Dawson Precision Glock MOS tritium sights on my G19 with a Vortex Venom line up perfectly.

    IMG_0420[1].JPG
     
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  5. 555R

    555R

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    This is what I wanted to know. Thanks.
     
  6. FixedSights

    FixedSights

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    The top pic isn't realistic because there is no way to have the irons line up with your eye in the in the lower portion of the glass and have the dot anywhere in the glass other than on the front sight. The lower pic is how it works.

    So I'm guessing you're asking are there sights that you can see through the glass. The question has nothing to do with the actual do since, as I said, the dot will be wherever the sights are when they are lined up.

    If you're serious about running an optic, I would suggest you just get a milled slide. The optic sits much lower. The second suggestion is using an RMR instead of something with a thicker base like a Burris FF3. In fact, when you combine the who suggestions and use a milled slide with a thin optic like an RMR and add in tall suppressor sights, you get closer to an absolute cowitness as opposed to seeing the sights through the bottom of the glass.
     
  7. Henny

    Henny NRA Life Benefactor, GOA Life.

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    I like the lowest BUIS as possible. I actually just have a line scribed on the back of the RMR and gold dot front.

    Plus it moves the RMR further to the rear, away from the ejection port.


    60C50D44-652D-4368-9340-26D987EF7B09.jpeg C633DB80-FD56-4730-ABA2-7F9D51E76CE7.jpeg

    FFBB07C4-4965-4ACA-9563-703ADE6435D2.jpeg
     
  8. cciman

    cciman

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    Simple question with a complex answer- depends, if you wear size 8 shoes, size 10 ski boots may not fit. I put a RMRs with a seal plates on a RMR milled slides, using ameriglo high suppressor sights on 2 Glocks, and they are absolute.

    Change the above and YMMV.

    MOS requires a mounting plate adapter with most RDS- right there, you have the optic sitting higher than a milled slide.
     
  9. Buckshot Barry

    Buckshot Barry

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    My Gen 5 19 FS MOS and RMR 7 type 2 and Trijicon suppressor sights

    [​IMG]

    BTW, I had to use the suppressor sights last Action Pistol match. My RMR was set to auto adjust. Moved to the right side of the outdoor stage.

    Perfect FUBAR conditions. The freshly painted white bowling pins were in bright sunlight and my shooting position was in the shade. The dot was so dim I missed the first 3 bowling pins. Then I picked up the iron sights and finished the stage. GREAT learning experience!
     
  10. 9x45

    9x45 Millennium Member

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    When you shoot a dot, look at the target. When you shoot irons, look (more or less) at the front sight (rear sight and target slightly fuzzy). But co-witness is silly. Dots have been around on IPSC Open Division guns since the 70's. Today's dots last much longer.

    Here's what the Great One has to say about that.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li0rGtXh23I
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  11. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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    ^ You always start in target focus, because that's how you initially engage the target, regardless of the sighting system. If you can call the shot in target focus, there's no reason to shift to sight focus.

    If you do need to shift to sight focus, most of that process should be during the presentation, so you are looking for a sight picture in sight focus before breaking the shot.

    A capable shooter knows what type of sight picture is needed for a given target based on his initial view of the target, so that is what he looks for when the sights come into view.

    Shooting is primarily mechanics, not vision. Vision tells you the sights are on target, but mechanics is how the sights get to target and stay there during the firing process.

    The tighter the target, the more mechanical refinement is needed to call a hit. Mechanical refinement takes time. Visual refinement also takes time, and it should be mostly concurrent with mechanical refinement.

    So the the targets that require a given shooter to shift to sight focus will generally be those requiring a degree of mechanical refinement that takes the time needed to shift vision. And that shift should be automatic.

    One of the big keys to shooting at speed is developing the ability to know the sights are on target with less visual information. And that comes primarily from attention to mechanics, not vision. That's why the quality of trigger press is more important than the quality of sight picture most of the time.

    Sight focus basically doesn't exist with a dot. So people professing epiphany going from irons to a dot are mostly those who never learned to get out of sight focus with irons. In that respect, I agree that co-witness is kind of silly.

    Anyone trying to learn to shoot irons beyond slow fire should be working on pushing out their sight focus threshold. Over-aiming is a massive waste of time at speed, and probably also a substantial waste of attention when shooting at the precision end of the spectrum.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  12. RJHUB

    RJHUB

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    Gen19.5 + CHPWS adapter plate + Trijicon rmr06 type 2 + Ameriglo GL-429.
    I installed sights and shot off a bench to zero.
    I then installed rmr and zeroed my red dot to be right on top of iron sights when aligned.
    Took to range and fined tuned red dot at 50 yds.
    Dont really see iron sights unless I turn off red dot.
    But I think that is what you are looking for. Red dot sits on top when aligning irons.
     
  13. Dannyi

    Dannyi

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    G19.4 MOS with Shield optic installed.
    This optic will co-witness with factory irons. Fine tuned dot to right over irons & done.