More than 700 people died in stampede?!?!

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by PicardMD, Sep 25, 2015.

  1. PicardMD

    PicardMD Make It So!!

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/25/world/middleeast/mecca-stampede.html?_r=0

    So, more than 700 people died in Mecca during Hajj from stampede?
    And apparently this happens every year -- a few hundred get trampled to death every year during Hajj.

    Killed by collapsed crane, OK, accidents happen
    Killed by violent protests, OK, mob mentality of some screwed up few.
    Killed by infectious outbreak in a large crowd, OK, microorganisms win sometimes.

    But, trampled to death by supposedly peaceful masses on a holy pilgrimage? Really? Seriously? WTF?

    How many people have been trampled to death during midnight mass in St. Peter's basilica on Christmas Eve?
     
  2. Random

    Random Banned

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    300 christians were trampled to death at a soccer game. They went there for entertainment. They didn't go there to fight. Nobody goes to Black Friday hoping to step on another human. People have been trampled to death at a football match just because one guy forgot to unlock the stadium doors. Nobody went to see The Who thinking they might get crushed to death. Stuff happens. You can try to pretend it's because their religion is oh so violent and that yours is better, but you're just stroking yourself. Rushing the stage at a Pearl Jam concert? Stinkin muslims.
     

  3. czsmithGT

    czsmithGT

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  4. Deanster

    Deanster Cheese? CLM Millennium Member

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    The scale is completely different from anything else on the planet.

    Over 3 million people come through Mecca for the 5-day period, and each and every last one must do a very specific series of things on each particular day for their Hajj to 'count' as their mandatory at-least-once-in-your-lifetime achievement-unlocking trip, so it's pretty high-stakes.

    There are apparently many guidebooks describing in excruciating detail the correct way to do it 'right', and I've read that most people go in guided groups, so they can be led through the process. Many are elderly or infirm, trying hard to get their required trip in before they die.

    Every one of those three million pilgrims must circle the rock 7x, run back and forth between two hills a few times (now all enclosed in a temple, so it's air-conditioned), spend at least an afternoon out on the plain, throw rocks at a pillar/wall representing Satan, sacrifice a meat animal (now allowed to be done by buying a certificate that you're going in jointly on a sacrifice animal, rather than doing it individually), etc.

    The logistics are stunning, and the Saudis have dropped something like $100 BILLION over the last couple decades trying to get things set up so that it's functional and sort of safe. The Grand Mosque expansion is supposed to cost ~$10 BILLION, and increase the capacity of the building (complex, whatever) from ~1.2 million to ~2.0 million people at one time. I've read the Saudis have 100K police deployed in the area, and something like 8 dedicated medivac helicopters.

    Given the number of bodies involved, and the crushing urgency each one feels to do their once-in-a-lifetime Hajj correctly, it seems like it doesn't take much for things to start to snowball.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajj

    Oh, and it's 114 degrees F there this week.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2015
  5. HalfHazzard

    HalfHazzard Señor Member

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  6. aircarver

    aircarver Descent Terminated Silver Member

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    No wonder they're all so P/O ed all the time ! .... :shocked:
     
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  7. SGT HATRED

    SGT HATRED

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    I see you're using the term "people" very loosely.

    The world is a better place without those 700 barbarians...
     
  8. seanmac45

    seanmac45 CLM

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    Think of the good work one 50 kiloton would perform.
     
  9. John Rambo

    John Rambo Raven

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    Just imagine the fun one could have with a cargo plane and pigs with parachutes...
     
  10. Random

    Random Banned

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    Just like deuteronomy in the bible it's the eating of pork which is forbidden. Pigs in parachutes would just be an interesting aerial show.
     
  11. Deanster

    Deanster Cheese? CLM Millennium Member

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    The vast majority are just normal people living normal lives like you and I.

    I have no use for radical Islam, terrorists or those who support them. Straight to hell with them, on a bobsled, please.

    But I just can't see a reason to hate random people who came from across the globe to worship and died horribly. 'Sgt. Hatred' is clearly a name you've chosen well.
     
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  12. hogfish

    hogfish Señor Member

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    There are a lot more conservative Muslims than there are conservative Christians.
     
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  13. IvanVic

    IvanVic

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    A couple weeks ago when that falling crane killed 107 people in Mecca, he (Sgt. Hatred) said that we should roundup and kill every Muslim in America.
     
  14. John Rambo

    John Rambo Raven

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    Well, in that case we coudl always ditch the parachutes.
     
  15. Glock&KimberLady

    Glock&KimberLady Morior Invictus

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    Those sweeping generalizations work well for them when they're talking about us.

    But I'm sure his version is the better one, because he has Jeebus on his side, right?

    Killing anyone in the name of religion is terrible.
     
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  16. Hicksville Kid

    Hicksville Kid

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    I think that tribal differences are a much more likely source of the catalyst for panic and a stampede. But the Saudi' would never mention that.
     
  17. Random

    Random Banned

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    Crap. Now that would actually work. In addition to not eating them they are also not allowed to touch their dead carcasses. It would be pretty difficult to find a non-muslim to handle that cleanup job.


    I am not religious but if 'America' did that I would stand against America and I doubt I would be alone.


    I'm confident it is most probably the biggest contributing factor, but no one ever called the Saudis dumb.
     
  18. PicardMD

    PicardMD Make It So!!

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    Never said anything about Muslim being a violent religion. If you want to debate that, we can start another thread and I am sure you will get lots of responses from other people more knowledgeable than me on the subject.

    Point is, Hajj is not a one time thing like a concert. It happens in the same place, at the same time, every year, for centuries, I presume. It's predictable. It's not spontaneous. And yet, hundreds die every year. Yes, you can say a few hundred people being trampled to death is acceptable given that 2 to 3 millions attend every year. You may even say that 700 is an improvement from 1400 in the 1990's. That's fine, if that is your stance.

    My point is, instead of trying to see this as outsiders trying to embarrass/ridicule Muslims, why aren't they doing a better job of policing and planning themselves to prevent these deaths, especially when these events are predictable year after year? I am willing to bet that 300 people don't get trampled to death in the same stadium every soccer game.
     
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  19. seanmac45

    seanmac45 CLM

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    GKL;

    I wouldn't want you or anyone to believe I would kill in the name of religion. I was raised a Catholic, but years ago lost my faith.

    What I DO believe is that we are in a life or death struggle with Islam. By WE I mean everyone who is not of the Muslim faith. It is not possible to peacefully coexist with a people whose creed is based upon world domination and the subjugation or murder of anyone who is not a muslim.

    If they wanted to practice pedophilia, bestiality, misogyny and wanton murder in their own lands that would be fine with me.

    But that's NOT what they want. The goal is to populate and dominate all lands on the face of the planet.

    GKL I believe you are a good person. I am sure you think that there are good muslims. But let me assure you that even the "good" and "friendly" muslims deep down harbor enmity towards all non-believers and secretly root for (and financially support) the Jihadi terrorists.

    If the muslim world renounced violence and the subjugation of non-muslims tomorrow I would wish them well and a long supply of donkeys to have sex with. But that's not going to happen in my lifetime.

    Did I hold these beliefs prior to 9/11? Absolutely not.

    But at this point in my life they are as rock solid as a slab of granite.
     
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  20. Jason D

    Jason D INFRINGED Silver Member Millennium Member

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    I really have a hard time working up a single care here.

    I would hate that anyone innocent was killed, but it's very hard to differentiate these people from isis.