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MN: Supreme Court: 2nd Amendment Doesn't Protect Felon

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by HerrGlock, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Psst...dont use a dictionary..

    un·alien·able
    adjective \ˌən-ˈāl-yə-nə-bəl, -ˈā-lē-ə-\
    : inalienable

    You realize that "unalienable" is an old spelling of inalienable??
     
  2. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    I don't have to agree with that statement, since we can just look at the results - unless the government is more powerful than "their creator" the government won't be able to take away "unalienable" rights given by an all-powerful "creator."

    Problem solved - either they aren't "endowed by god" or the government can't take them away...I have a feeling I know which side of that will come out on top.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013

  3. Jim85IROC

    Jim85IROC

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    I know it gets complicated, but I really think it should depend on the crime. It's not fair for somebody who was convicted for a white collar or non-violent crime to be unable to defend himself or his family, but on the other hand, I think it's completely justified to keep guns out of the hands of violent criminals.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  4. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Settle down. I just asked if you agreed with that statement.

    That statement was simply the reason given for the USA declaring its independence from the UK. I was just asking if you agreed with that statement. It seems from your reaction that you dont.
     
  5. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    You are correct. A good answer to this:

    It has been several times truly remarked that bills of rights are, in their origin, stipulations between kings and their subjects, abridgements of prerogative in favor of privilege, reservations of rights not surrendered to the prince. Such was MAGNA CHARTA, obtained by the barons, sword in hand, from King John. Such were the subsequent confirmations of that charter by succeeding princes. Such was the PETITION OF RIGHT assented to by Charles I., in the beginning of his reign. Such, also, was the Declaration of Right presented by the Lords and Commons to the Prince of Orange in 1688, and afterwards thrown into the form of an act of parliament called the Bill of Rights. It is evident, therefore, that, according to their primitive signification, they have no application to constitutions professedly founded upon the power of the people, and executed by their immediate representatives and servants.
     
  6. Glocksanity

    Glocksanity

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    Felons can't own guns?

    So, it one is convicted of a felony for tax fraud, he or she should lose their right to protect themselves?

    Lots of non-violent felons out there. Can't just throw all felons under one blanket if you ask me. Bueller?
     
  7. WarCry

    WarCry

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    You're asking my opinion of something that has no weight of law on it whatsoever.

    Why would I be arrogant enough to presume I would know what was on the mind of any Supreme Being? Why does anyone mortal person presume to have this knowledge?

    There is no such thing as divine rights. All rights are created by men - some have been around longer than others, some come, some go. If you believe in the statement that there is a a true, inalienable right to liberty that cannot be deprived by man, then there should be a super-magic force that prevents handcuffs and jail cells from every locking shut.

    God didn't write the Declaration of Independence. Saying otherwise lends credence to ANYONE that says "God told me to", whether it's a politician running for office, an NFL running back running for the endzone, a Muslim extremist detonating a car bomb, or the Westboro loons protesting a soldier's funeral.

    Faith has its place - I've seen the benefits very, VERY first-hand. But that place is not in the courtrooms or legislation.

    But, as I said, your question is moot trolling, because my opinion carries just as little weight of law as the Declaration of Independence.
     
  8. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Why not?

    http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1474333
     
  9. WarCry

    WarCry

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    Shouldn't, perhaps, but can? Definitely.
     
  10. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    That is a very interesting way to look at rights. If that is so, then I have no rights, only privileges afforded to me by the govt.
     
  11. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    Agreed. When sentence is complete rights should be fully restored without petition.

    What these laws accomplish is the exact same thing every other gun law accomplishes: it disarms the wrong person.

    If a felon has served his time and wants to rejoin society he needs to be able to protect himself. If he wishes to remain a law abiding citizen he can't do that.

    However, a felon intent on committing more violent crime will ignore the law.

    Your (not Bren, the rest of you) stupid laws accomplish nothing.


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  12. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    If someone is convicted of felony tax fraud he should be given a medal for valor and free ammo for life.


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  13. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    The very foundation of this country is that man is born with certain rights. These rights pre-existed government since man created government and then codified those rights.

    Governments purpose is to protect those rights and, really, nothing more. Because government generally has a monopoly on force and is always corrupt, it often fails in its duty.


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  14. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    What an excellent description - reads like something the founders would have written...Alexander Hamilton, maybe...Federalist #84 would have been a good place for him to write that.

    I'm sure you meant to attibute it to him when you pasted it in.
     
  15. WarCry

    WarCry

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    But where does the idea that they "predate" government come from?

    The government. They're codified in the Constitution.

    If you ABSOLUTELY believe those rights exist, then how was the government able to write off slavery, the denial of liberty and in some cases life, when "all men" are created equal?

    It's rhetoric. It's rhetoric that we, as Americans, believe in. If they were truly universal rights, then they would apply around the world.

    But they don't. And anyone that says otherwise is absolutely full of crap, because life, liberty, and pursuits of happiness are repressed to a very, VERY wide part of the world population.

    Yes, rights are controlled by the government. No matter what anyone says, the rights in THIS COUNTRY are bestowed by the Constitution. And, yes, that does mean there is a risk that those rights could be restricted.

    Isn't that the entire argument for supporting the Second Amendment, to PROTECT those rights? If they are universal, God-given, natural rights, why would they need protecting from men?
     
  16. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    It IS rhetoric to people like you. I understand that


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  17. glock_collector

    glock_collector

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    Maybe before you commit a felony, even a little tiny one, such as a 50mil ponzy scheme...you might wanna think geeze, maybe this will effect me the rest of my life?? White collar, violent...whatever crime YOU decided to commit should have lasting effects on your life...what about the folks lives you ruined with your tiny lil non-violent white collar misdeed? Ask those people if they think your "rights" should be restored. PS. make sure your lawyer excuses me from your jury selection...
     
  18. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    If the crime warrants lifetime punishment, shouldn't they be in prison?

    Once the sentence is satisfied why should they continue to be punished?


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  19. stevelyn

    stevelyn NRA Life Member

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    Criminals are a significant part of the democrap base.
     
  20. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    I assumed people knew what it was. Just as I didn't attribute the quote to the Declaration of Independence.

    And for those that don't know what it is, well, then maybe it is good for them to be able to do a little research.

    The country wasn't founded on JUST the words in the constitution. The federalist papers, DOI, et al, are supporting documents to that show intent behind why constitution is as it is.

    As you pointed out, and warcry, seems to claim, government (I believe warcry is a govt employee) gets to decide who has rights and how they can be "reasonably" restricted. This is very common on GT. "you can't yell fire in a movie theater".

    Yet when you read the context in which the constitution was written, govt being able to place "reasonable" restrictions on a right meant that rights would then be granted by a govt and that is exactly why the despot monarchies did. They granted and repealed rights as they saw fit.

    My question would be if the founding fathers and revolutionaries fought to over through a despot's rule who granted an removed rights, how are we any different than that now especially regarding not allowing "felons" to own firearms?




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