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Missouri 185 gr 45 ACP Reload Questions

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by SBray, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. SBray

    SBray

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    IMG_0546.JPG IMG_0531.JPG IMG_0536.JPG IMG_0539.JPG IMG_0542.JPG

    I was shooting my CZ 97 45 ACP yesterday and shot some of my 230 grain FMJ rounds. When I tried shooting some of the 185 gr Missouri rounds the first one jammed and it was all I could do to free the round from the chamber. It locked the gun up about 1/4" out of battery. So after shooting the other rounds I returned home and disassembled the gun to do some "plunk" tests that I should have done during the reloading process. I found the 230gr FMJ rounds passed the test, but the 185gr Missouri rounds would not fully seat. They measured approximately 1.57". I first suspected I had not crimped them enough, but they measured the same diameter as the other rounds. So I seated them further so that they were just above the rim at the curved portion of the bullet. It finally passed the "plunk" test. Now back to the range to see if they feed properly.

    (I uploaded the first photo after posting the thread, and I don't know how to move the photos around in their sequence of presentation. It shows the final adjustments I made to the round. I have never loaded this type of round before. I thought it looked kind of odd.)

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  2. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    Yes, with any gun that has minimal free bore (the lands come very close to the chamber end), any bullet with bearing surface protruding much above the case mouth at all, you can have failure to return to battery issues. The easiest way to clear this kind of jam is to grasp the slide firmly with your weak hand and slam your strong hand into the grip, where you grip it normally.

    SWC can be fussy because many times you need the nose to help feed past the top of the chamber but can't seat them too long or suffer what you got.

    I have found 200gr SWC's easier in this respect.
     
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  3. dudel

    dudel

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    Your 230gr RN start the ogive at the case mouth. As WW said, if you have a small amount of freebore, the ogive of the RN will clear the throat. With the SWC, the ogive (such as it is!), start well past the case mouth, and is hanging up just past the chamber.

    FWIW, the SWC I use in 45 get seated so the step is almost flush with the case mouth.
     
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  4. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Yes Willy nailed, OAL is too long. As always, OAL is bullet & bbl specific. Change bullets, start over with your OAL.
     
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  5. SBray

    SBray

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    WW, that's an interesting way to clear such a jam. I've never heard of that method before. I know my method (holding the gun like I was shooting with my strong hand and pulling back on the slide with my weak hand) did not work very well.

    Anyway, I'm going to shorten the OAL even slightly more because it seems, at least for me, the Dillon Square Deal B has a tendency not to be real consistent with seating primers or bullets compared to the 550's I have.

    Steve
     
  6. fredj338

    fredj338

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    yeah that is pretty much the std drill to clear a gun with the slide locked. Unfortunately, I have even had to do it in a match. Plays hell with your score.:fist:
    When I saw the pic of your loaded round, that is 99.999% sure to cause a FT go into battery. With most guns & SWC, you want no more than 0.060" of shoulder above the case mouth. Sometimes a bit less.
     
  7. SBray

    SBray

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    I'm eager to make up some of these 185gr rounds to test for feeding. I'll report back after. The CZ 97 is a pleasure to shoot. Because it's a large heavy gun, it's very comfortable with regard to felt recoil!

    Steve
     
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  8. njl

    njl

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    I assume your 1.57" is actually 1.157". That first (not the first posted one...the first attempt) swc has (IMO) way too much bearing surface exposed. At that length, do they chamber in any of your guns?
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
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  9. SBray

    SBray

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    njl,

    Thanks for bringing that to my attention! You are correct. It should have read 1.157".

    I went to the range this afternoon with the rounds corrected to 1.150". All functioned properly without even one failure to feed. I made 15 more rounds this afternoon that I both checked with the barrel out of the gun and also verified with a case gauge.

    I have a Colt 1911 that I will check tomorrow. I have a feeling it is more forgiving for such dimensions. I'll post later.

    Thanks,
    Steve
     
  10. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    I use my G21 to shoot up anything that won't work in any number of guns. I have never measured it, but I bet it has at least 1/8" of free bore.

    I once was trying to get some plated 200gr SWC's to feed in any of my 45 Auto guns. I seated shorter, I seated longer, nada. I finally just loaded them up to my old 200gr LSWC spec and shot them all up with my G21SF (like 500, one trip to the range, practicing all sorts of things I rarely practice, GONE!).

    I don't buy plated 200gr SWC's any more. Actually, I don't buy plated anymore, they are an obsolete genre for me.. ;)
     
  11. SBray

    SBray

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    WW,
    When you say "plated", do you mean bullets like Xtreme, or do you also include bullets like these Missouri bullets?

    Steve
     
  12. njl

    njl

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    Pretty sure he means plated like x-treme, berrys, rainier. What you're using is "coated" lead.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  13. SBray

    SBray

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    nhl,

    I thought so, but I didn't want to discount the possibly he would not shoot anything but jacketed bullets.

    I myself tried plated Xtreme, and while they are good bullets, I enjoy jacketed better. These Missouri bullets seem to be quite acceptable for me.

    Thanks nhl,

    Steve
     
  14. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    Sorry to be long in responding, new puppy has me running around in circles, I miss a lot of conversations.

    Yes, njl was right, I just don't buy plated like Berry's, Xtreme, Rainier, etc. I actually have bought Xtreme on occasion when I wanted something quick, but generally now only buy Precision Delta (in 2000 bullets lots), or SNS casting coated.

    For what I shoot, while coated are still substantially cheaper, when I am buying in larger lots, PD jacketed are close enough price wise to plated that I just go with them.
     
  15. noylj

    noylj

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    >Anyway, I'm going to shorten the OAL even slightly more
    No, you will take that barrel and ONE of your long rounds and incrementally reduce COL until the case head is flush with the barrel hood, removing any lead scrapped off by the case mouth.

    Your COL (Cartridge Overall Length) is determined by;
    your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and
    your gun (feed ramp)
    your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding)
    and
    the PARTICULAR bullet you are using.

    What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.

    Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel and lock the die body down temporarily).

    Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood (or, where there is no barrel hood, a few mils higher than where the head of an EMPTY case aligns with the barrel, as all cases are too short and I prefer to minimize head space). After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.

    You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop this round in the barrel and rotate it back-and-forth.

    Remove and inspect the round:

    1) Scratches on bullet--COL is too long
    2) Scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
    3) Scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
    4) Scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
    5) Scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.
     
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  16. SBray

    SBray

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    I have found that the 1911 Gold Cup is not more forgiving for such dimensions. It has slightly tighter dimensions than the CZ 97.

    I worked more on setting up the 45 ACP Missouri 185 SWC bullets yesterday. At 1.145" OAL, I was able to get the round setup to pass the "plunking" test in both gun barrels, but some would not slide completely down into my case gauge. I figure the rounds won't be a problem again in the future. I'll try to get to the range soon.

    Thanks,
    Steve
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017