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Minnesota Councilman defends Confederate flag

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Natty, Feb 13, 2012.

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  1. tantrix

    tantrix J'aimeLouisiane

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    So my question...you have read all of the historical accounts of the Civil War, and every single one of them says the South seceded to they could continue slavery?

    Ask me why that doesn't sound believable.
     
  2. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    Well then, it should be a trivial problem for you to find a pre-Reconstruction cite that supports your position.
     

  3. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

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    Zero sum arguments are an admission of defeat.
     
  4. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    How many times would I need to read their letters, speeches, articles of secession, the speeches and letters of their secession commissioners?

    I would say that it does not seem believable to you because rather than studying and knowing what Southern leaders had to say in their letters and speeches you instead place more credence in "Books about the civil war", and those primarily written by Neo confederates\libertarians which rely heavily on claims made long after the war rather than what was said Before and during the war.

    If your "Sources" are nothing more than those that repeat the fiction of the "lost cause" as though it were the truth. Then your opinion is going to be at odds with the Historical record.

    I have a question, Why was it the secessionists insisted on the south seceding even before Lincoln took office?

    Their reasons were plainly stated by themselves in their speeches.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  5. BEER

    BEER bad example

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    every time one of these threads pops up it never ceases to amaze me how such a large group of smart men can suddenly turn so damned dumb.

    the war is over, it's time BOTH sides got over it.

    the flag does not currently stand for what it did in the past.

    both the north and the south fought their own brothers and family members on american soil and that's just flat out wrong no matter what the reason was.
     
  6. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    A South Carolina native James Petigru commenting on South Carolina Politics after the state seceded commented,

    :rofl:
     
  7. Tiro Fijo

    Tiro Fijo

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    Lt. General Nathan B. Forrest in his farewell address to his troops.

    Gen'l. Forest was on record as stating that if the war was not about slavery then why were they fighting? Interestingly, he manumitted many of his Negros after Murfreesboro.
     
  8. NorthCarolinaLiberty

    NorthCarolinaLiberty MentalDefective

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    Councilman Hansen took down the flag a few days after this story. My guess is that he wryly likes to stir the pot. He said that he likes the flag design and loves the Dukes of Hazzard. Guess all those government types took exception. One resident wants the councilman to apologize to the city.

    Hansen should oblige by appearing on one of those afternoon lady talk shows. The show would first support his right to speech, the constitution, and whatever else we forgot from 6th grade civics. The camera would then slowly pan in as the first tear trickles from Hansen's eye. He would talk about how he never meant to be hurtful and hope he would be forgiven. The show's participants would then forgive him and confirm how it's still okay to watch the Dukes in reruns. All will chuckle, with a cut to commerical.

    The commercial will, coincidentally, be from a very, very high ranking government official. He will talk about America's great legacy of how each and every American should respect one another.

    http://www.startribune.com/local/south/139398563.html
     
  9. Natty

    Natty

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    The North will always defend the fact that they invaded the South and used Terrorism tactics to keep the South in the Union. They will ignore how the US feels about Terrorism now days.

    They will even try to say it was about slavery. They will ignore the fact that the North had slavery for 200 years and still had slavery during, and after, the Civil War. They have to ignore this fact or it makes them look like hypocrites. They need to have some reason for the 300,000 dead Union soldiers that died for Lincoln.

    The South will always defend their legal right to secede from the Union, fighting for Freedom and Independence.
     
  10. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

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    Don't want none, don't start none.
     
  11. Gray_Rider

    Gray_Rider

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    We asked only to be left alone.
    (See Jefferson Davis' Farewell Address to Congress)

    True, we fired on Ft. Sumpter, a nearly unmanned fortress (that Lincoln was secretly trying to resupply) that we had given ample time to surrender peacefully. For this, our country was invaded, our homes burned, our civilians were raped and pillaged, (against existing international law) and our armys attacked no less than six times before we fought back.

    But this is just all Neo Confederate pap. Right Dragoon?

    Gray_Rider
    Deo Vindice!
     
  12. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

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    "I only slapped him, but he punched me"!
     
  13. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    Neo Confederates will always defend the confederate illegal secession, their acts of war against the United States in seizing property legally owned by the United States. firing on unarmed union supply ships and attacking a US fort.

    Don't have to "try" or even say it, just point to the letters, speeches, debates, articles of secession, and other statements of the Southern leaders themselves made before and during the war.

    Your favorite misdirection. ignoring the fact that well before 1860 northern states had either outright abolished slavery or instituted gradual emancipation statutes.

    And yet Lincoln not only won re election by a landslide in 1864 he carried over 78% of the union soldiers votes.

    The Southern states did not have a right to secede in the manner in which they did. that fact is reflected in SCOTUS rulings BEFORE, DURING, and AFTER the war.

    The Idea that they were fighting for "Freedom and liberty" is a joke. They seceded to protect their right to deny freedom and liberty to millions of their fellow human beings, to protect their minority rule form of Govt.

    The "freedom and liberty" minority ruling class of the South had been censoring the mails for more than a decade by 1860. They took it upon themselves to decide what their fellow citizens could or could not read.

    That is on of the reasons the minority die hard secessionists demanded secession before Lincoln took office. They were not concerned that Lincoln was going to abolish slavery or that the Yankee soldiers would invade.

    Their fear was the Specter of Lincolns appointments to offices in the south. The Post offices ( no more censoring mails) custom house etc. And not by Yankee's but what the aristocratic republican minority rulers called "Southern turncoats".

    They were absolutely convinced this would bring about the establishment of a Southern Republican party ( what indescribable horror! the "rabble" would be able to join a different political party!!! They firmly believed that the Souths MAJORITY ( white no slave owners) would be swayed by this party and that Slavery and minority Rule would be brought to an end not by northern invasion, or federal laws but by the MAJORITY within the States themselves.

    This they would not risk or tolerate.
     
  14. Gray_Rider

    Gray_Rider

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    And now, (for those whose minds aren't closed) I present.

    The Books.


    "The South was Right" Pelican Press J.R. Kennedy W.D. Kennedy

    "Myths of American Slavery" " " " " " "

    "Was Jefferson Davis Right?? " " " " " "

    "Why not Freedom?" " " " " " "

    "Lincoln Unmasked" Three Rivers Press Thomas J. DeLorenzo

    "The Real Lincoln" Three Rivers Presss Thomas J. DeLorenzo


    To be continued:

    Gray_Rider
    Deo Vindice!
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  15. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    Right first we will overlook his inauguration address in which he promised that Those that opposed the South (Clearly referring to the North) would soon smell southern gunpowder and feel southern steel". This at a point in time when the North had taken no action whatsoever against the seceding States.

    Add to that the claim they only wanted to be left alone has a hollow ring to it when they engaged in treason by seizing the legal property of the United States when they seized Forts, post offices, arsenals, and the US mint in new Orleans.

    It's like the armed robber seizing your property by force and stealing your money as well then declaring they only want to be left alone in peace, and any retaliation by the victim constitutes aggression by them.

    oh yeah and lest it be forgotten. many of those seizures by southern states took place BEFORE they ever seceded.

    This is a bald faced lie, Lincoln notified Governor Pickens that he was sending the ship which was unarmed solely for the purpose of resupplying the Fort with food.

    What right did they have to demand the surrender of the legal property of the Federal Govt? That property was legally purchased and ceded to the Federal Govt. by the South Carolina State Govt. S. Carolina had no legal claim to it.

    Guess it was part of the Souths "we want only to be left in peace, ( while we rob you by force) strategy.

    Exactly right.
     
  16. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    Chronology matters.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  17. Gray_Rider

    Gray_Rider

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    The Books Continued:

    "The Unpopular Mr. Lincoln" Larry Tagg Publisher Unknown

    "The Politically Incorrect Guide to The South" Clint Johnson Regnery Pub. Inc.

    "The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Civil War" H.W. Crocker III Regnery Pub.

    "War for What?" Francis W. Springer Nippert Publishing

    "Embattled Banner"
    A reasonable defence of the Confederate battle flag
    Don Hinkle Turner publishing Co.

    "War Crimes against Southern Civilians"
    Walter Bryan Cisco Pelican Press


    "Black History as written by White Liars"
    John D. Long dixiedepot.com

    "Black Flag over Dixie" So. Ill. Univ. Press


    Gray_Rider
    Deo Vindice!
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  18. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    January 6, 1861: Florida seizes Apalachicola arsenal.
    January 7, 1861: Florida seizes Fort Marion.
    January 8, 1861: Floridians try to seize Fort Barrancas but are chased off.

    January 10, 1861: Florida secedes.


    January 3, 1861: Georgia seizes Fort Pulaski.

    January 19, 1861: Georgia secedes.


    January 4, 1861: Alabama seizes U.S. arsenal at Mount Vernon.
    January 5, 1861: Alabama seizes Forts Morgan and Gaines.

    January 11, 1861: Alabama secedes.

    January 10, 1861: Louisiana seizes U.S. arsenal at Baton Rouge, as well as Forts Jackson and St. Philip.

    January 11, 1861: Louisiana seizes U.S. Marine Hospital.

    January 14, 1861: Louisiana seizes Fort Pike.

    January 26, 1861: Louisiana secedes.

    February 8, 1861: Arkansas seizes U.S. Arsenal at Little Rock.

    February 12, 1861: Arkansas seizes U.S. ordnance stores at Napoleon.

    May 6, 1861 Arkansas secedes
     
  19. Carrys

    Carrys Inquisitive

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    We know the feeling.:faint:
     
  20. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    And for those used to January inaugurals, let me remind you that Lincoln didn't take office until March 4, 1861. And the guys talking about the unwarranted invasion of the South should note that he didn't issue his call for volunteers until April, 1861.
     
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