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might have to eventually go to a shotgun

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by antediluvianist, Jan 28, 2005.

  1. antediluvianist

    antediluvianist

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    Hello, guys. Have had an eye exam . Some further deterioration (had an eye operation that went badly).

    This has probably been asked before, but - those of you BOGs familiar with shotguns, what do you recommend as a good home defense - the shorter the barrel the better but there probably is some legal minimum here ? - shotgun? Willing to buy imported if you feel they are smoother or something than Armscor . Heard a lot about the (Remington?) "870"- if that's your recommendation, where's the best gunshop for it?

    Good if my wife and daughter can shoot it too so the pull and recoil have to be reasonable - anything available locally that's less than a 12 gauge (just thinking)?
     
  2. antediluvianist

    antediluvianist

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    http://www.armscor.com.ph/armscor/index2.htm

    Armscor-wise, a possible is the 18 1/2" barrel BG30 . Armscor makes 20 gauge shotshells too; don't know if their shotguns come in that gauge (for wife n daughter, n for less penetration indoors), will find out.
     

  3. Evan N. Payawal

    Evan N. Payawal

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    Am not yet familiar with shotguns, as I was informed just today my brand new Mossberg 590 (my first shotgun) is now ready, will pick it up tomorrow. It took Wendell of Magnificent World of Guns exactly 3 weeks to process. Mukhang ok naman siya kausap (as well as the other people in their shop on Aurora Blvd)in case anybody is interested checking them out.

    Anyway, from what I've read, if you can afford it, buy an autoloader because it 1. definitely provides superior firepower and 2. has less recoil. Drawbacks: 1.Will not cycle reliably with weaker loads 2. needs more maintenance 3. more expensive.

    I got a pump primarily because its cheaper. Other advantages: 1. will fire anything as long as the shell will fit into the chamber (birdshot, buckshot, slugs, rubbershot, flechette rounds, dragon's breath <wouldn't mind geting a hold of some of that>) The nice thing about the 590 is it will chamber and fire 2 3/4" and 3" shells, you can even mix them in the magazine. The 590 is in service wit the US armed forces and its reliability-ruggedness are proven.

    I was actually tempted to buy this SPAS 12 I saw in Buy and Sell for 45k, always dreamt of having one since I was a kid, but it isn't made anymore and parts are hard to find, even in the US. Thats tolerable if not for certain plastic parts of the gun which deteriorate with just age (even if gun is seldom used).
     
  4. antediluvianist

    antediluvianist

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    Evan, i'll PM you. Thanks.
     
  5. mikey177

    mikey177 Remember

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    Ante, the recoil from any shotgun is going to be considerably more than that from a handgun. Be that as it may, it is still manageable given sufficient training and practice.

    I may be mistaken, but I find that shotguns have a lighter trigger pull than most revolvers. Maybe some other BoGs could validate this observation. As such, you might want to consider this since you stated before that you prefer firearms with heavy trigger pulls.

    I have an Armscor Model 30SAS. Its kind of long given the confined space of our apartment, but I don't plan on going house clearing with it anyway, it'll be my saferoom weapon for when me and my family are behind a barricade waiting for the BGs to kick open the bedroom door.

    Also, contrary to what you see in some movies, you still have to aim a shotgun. Its more forgiving than a pistol or rifle because of the spread pattern of the buckshot, but it still has to be pointed in the direction of the threat.
     
  6. antediluvianist

    antediluvianist

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    Thanks, Evan and Mikey.

    The main advantage I see in Evan's Mossberg 590 is its capacity: 9 rounds . The Remington 870 has only - if I read the website right - 4 rounds. The Armscor shotguns seem to have 3-5, depending on the model. I like the idea of 9 rounds, most likely much more than enough for any realistic encounter. Even half that and my living room would be Swiss cheese. But peace of mind knowing I wouldn't have to fumble to reload it. And it must be fun outdoors.

    I'll pass on the semi-auto shotguns, I think. If anything can go wrong, it will.

    Yeah, Mikey, I'll have to practice. Can't believe Hollywood movies where one shot from a shotgun kills everybody within 180 degrees.
     
  7. flyboy 1

    flyboy 1 Sir Yes Sir!!

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  8. antediluvianist

    antediluvianist

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    Shotgun guys, is 18 inches the legal minimum length for shotguns in the Philippines, or what is it? Looks like Armscors only go down to 18 1/2 inches.
     
  9. flyboy 1

    flyboy 1 Sir Yes Sir!!

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    I think around 18 inches is the minimum, although I am not 100% sure. In any event Sir Ante you would want to avoid the shorter barrels and those without fixed buttstocks, since they are very difficult to shoot and hit with effectively. The six rounders should have the optimum mix of balance and firepower sufficient for your needs. ;f
     
  10. antediluvianist

    antediluvianist

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    "The six rounders should have the optimum mix of balance and firepower sufficient for your needs. "

    Thank you, Flyboy. I now see that the Mossberg 500 is pretty much the same as the 590 but has "only" a six-round capacity. Yes, that's enough. OK, I've got all the info I need to buy. Thanks, guys.
     
  11. jasonub

    jasonub

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    the 590 is milspec and was the only milspec shotgun till yr 2003 or 2004. iirc
     
  12. Allegra

    Allegra

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    I doubt there are barrel lentth limits dito, kasi I often see sawed off shotguns carried by jaguars
    the reason hanggang 18 inch lang ang barrel kasi it's the minimum lentgth for the powder to burn
    Anything less, nasayang lang powder
     
  13. cebuboy

    cebuboy toy soldier

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    hi ante,

    imho, you cant go wrong with a pump gun. afaik, barrel length is not an issue here in the p.i. for a first hd shotgun, a fixed stock is reccomended along with an at least 18" bbl. the shorter the barrel the bigger the bang;f (not reccomended for hd, the flash and bang are unsettling for both the firer and bg). many say the 870 is the gold standard of pump guns, some like the mossberg series specially the 590 because the 500s trigger assembly is made of plastic. the mossberg design is easier to reload because the lifter does not get in the way. italian pumpguns are also nice, cant go wrong with the benelli nova or the fabarm sdass. the nova can fire 3.5" super mags if you can take the kick:) and our armscor is ok too (parts available). and for value for money, i think the karatai taktik sold by PB is a nice copy of the 870, its made in turkey and the action is really slick. havent tried an 870 yet. and just like any other weapon, training and practice is important. my kid sister shoots my nova better than me:) also if you can, try handling them to get a feel of their handling characteristics, controls etc:)
     
  14. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    Ante,
    Even a 20 Ga. kicks pretty bad -- compared to most handguns and .22LR rifles. Bruised shouder is typical for new 12 Ga. users, and here in the Philippines, it's pretty much 12 Ga. everywhere you go.

    I don't recall ever coming across a codified barrel length restriction for shotguns here, and even less an effective means of enforcing any such restriction. I'll echo Allegra: just look at all the security guards toting pistol-grip shotties with shortened barrels.

    PB Dionisio has a decent selection of shotties on diplay, and a fast delivery time. Casa Armas displays scatterguns too, but they keep them all mummied up in plastic and bubblewrap (makes me wonder why they even bother diplaying the things ;Q )

    h
     
  15. FAlvar

    FAlvar I love Iya

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    A shotgun requires a considerable investment of time to shoot well. More so if you decide on a pump. A short stroke and the resulting double jam will tie up the gun real good (or bad). So make sure you get your trigger time in (aray!). The good thing about shotties though is that the bbl length has no bearing on the pattern. So a short bbl with no choke will spread the pellets just as wide as a long bbl at a given distance. Most HD or riot guns are cylinder bore aka no choke. Some PDs here use improved cylinder.

    The Mossberg 500 was issued for awhile to the USMC. The last time I was working with Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, they were using Remington 870s again. The Mossbergs ended up with the sailors.

    As was stated in the earlier posts, the 870 is very popular. Other choices are the Winchester 1300 and the Ithaca 37.

    Norinco makes a nice Win1897 clone. It has an external spur hammer. The beauty of the 1897 (and the Win1912) design is that it lacks a disconnector. If you hold the trigger back and work the pump back and forth, the gun will fire each time you chamber a shell. You can just imagine how devastating this can be.
     
  16. New_comer

    New_comer

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    Magnificent World of Arms displayed the original Remington 870 Police Wingmaster at the last gunshow for P28,000. PBD also had a fully parkerized 870 a year or two ago, also at 28K.

    I own one, an heirloom from my dad. Installed an original mag-tube extender worth P5,500 i got from PBD: now its a 6+1 pump action.

    Won't sell it as I intend to hand it down to my son in due time.

    But if I don;t have one, I can settle for the basic Mossberg Maverick 88, which sells for about 22K at Twin Pimes. Lots of parts and accessories for Mossbergs here. ;)
     
  17. antediluvianist

    antediluvianist

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    New_Comer, sent you a pm. Thanks.
     
  18. 345

    345

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    Rem 870 with mag tube extension. Cut the stock to fit and install a decelerator pad. You can even install a small red dot sight or a laser device and you are in business. Pump is better than semiauto (no jam).
     
  19. Eye Cutter

    Eye Cutter

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    My house gun. Remington 870 Police Magnum with 14 in. barrel, 4+1 rds. capacity

    I have 5 rds in the butt carrier for initial loading plus 6 rds in the side saddle for reloading as necessary. Ammo is Fiocchi 00 buck. The boxes of fiocchi and amscor shot shells shown in the photo are No. 6 shot I use for ipsc shotgun matches. Competition is good to hone one's skill in gunhandling.

    The short barrel is ideal in confined spaces like in automobiles and residences where the longer barrels may snag or hang up.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  20. antediluvianist

    antediluvianist

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    Ah, a 14 inch barrel. Just the thing for indoors. I presume you got it here in Manila, Eye Cutter? Where, if I may ask? (or, you had it cut down to 14 inches yourself?)

    Yeah, tougher recoil but I guess even my daughter could handle it with lighter, non 00, shotshells.