[Walkingwolf]

I had my go around with them recently also. I will never buy a computer with Windows again. Honestly I prefer Linux, but many of the current PCs the bios is set up to only accept windows. My wife's laptop is horribly slow, and only two years old. 300 gig hard drive, and after 2 years of updates half of it was used by unseen system information files. Found out how to get rid of them, but it also corrupted the DMR files. Called Microsoft at 4pm, they did not call back until midnight. By then through four hours of searching I found how to fix he problem.

Not only do they have a poopy product, their customer service sucks.

 

[John Rambo]

I have a Toshiba notebook computer that I bought several years ago. It came with Windows 7 Starter on it. I paid for the upgrade to 7 Home Pro, downloading it online, since the notebook doesn’t have a DVD drive.

Toshiba, along with Dell and HP and all the rest, load their notebooks with tons of crap programs that run in the background and slow the computer to a crawl. I wanted to wipe the drive and load a fresh Windows 7.

That’s where the nightmare started.

I called Microsoft and, big surprise, they were busy. I left my number with their robot and it told me they’d call back in 3 hours. Over 5 hours later, the phone rang. To make a very long and frustrating story short, they told me that what I wanted to do was impossible. The only way to load Windows 7 Starter was to get it from Toshiba, leaving me with all the crap I was trying to get rid of. Not only wouldn’t Microsoft provide 7 Starter, they claimed they didn’t have it anymore, since Windows 10 is now out. They said it wasn’t available at all, anywhere at any price. They offered to sell me a full install DVD for $99. The fact that I’d already paid to load the operating system on my notebook didn’t impress them. Either I could pay or live with a horribly slow computer.

They lied.

It took me about 6 minutes to find a free download of Windows 7 Starter through Google. I downloaded the .iso file onto my PC and burned it to a DVD. Then I connected an external DVD drive to the notebook and selected Setup. It accepted the product code on the bottom of the notebook, loaded Starter and allowed me to upgrade to Home Pro using the product code that came with the original download.

So, I have what I wanted, free, despite the lies of Microsoft.

Bastards can kiss my ass.

Go Linux. Then whenever you have a problem (which you will) you can just post on a message board and some random nerd will get back to you with a proposed solution.

And what Microsoft told you was not a lie, I'd wager. Without hearing a transcript I can't tell you for sure, however the only official way to get Starter is to contact your manufacturer. Microsoft does not offer it for download. What, exactly, were your expectation at this point? Did you expect a Microsoft representative to link you to some shady third party fileshare to download an OS?

 

[Japle]

Well yeah, Rambo. I did expect that the company that sold me the product would provide the customer service needed to use that product, rather than telling me I had to pay them the original purchase price or go suck eggs.

As far as linking me to “some shady third party”, the tech I was talking to tried two different methods, which he told me he wasn’t supposed to reveal, to get Starter running. He already proved he wasn’t concerned about breaking Microsoft rules, so why not just say, “Hey, you can find the .iso file online”?

 

[Detectorist]

Microsoft did not lie to you. They are not responsible for providing your support. Your computer vendor is.

 

[JimmyN]

Microsoft did not lie to you. They are not responsible for providing your support. Your computer vendor is.

That's true, if you buy the retail version then you get support from MS, but if you have the OEM version (supplied with a PC) then support is provided by the computer's vendor. That is the reason for the cost difference between OEM and retail versions, MS sells the OEM version much cheaper since they don't have to provide Windows support, that responsibility falls on someone else. That and the retail version can be moved to another system, it doesn't matter if ALL the hardware changes it will still activate.

Every Windows 7 install disk contains all versions of either 64 or 32 bit. Mount the iso and remove the ei.cfg file from the root directory, then burn another disk. Now instead of automatically installing the specific version for that disk you'll get a menu instead, and you can choose any of the versions to install. The key you have will have to match the version installed of course, and the key denotes whether it's an OEM or retail install, and which version it will activate. You can even mix the 32 and 64 bit versions on the same disk if you use the 32bit bootloader. You can install the 64bit version with the 32 bit bootloader, but you can't install a 32bit version with the 64bit bootloader. I have an install disk with all versions of Win7 on it, both 32 and 64 bit, which comes in handy when needing to re-install the OS for friends, family, etc. No matter which Win7 version they have a key for it's on my single install disk.

 

[captainstormy]

Microsoft did not lie to you. They are not responsible for providing your support. Your computer vendor is.

+1

And aside from that fact, your surprised a company, any company, tried to sell you something instead of giving it to you for free? Must be a nice place you live in where that is surprising.

Also, you can google around and download anything. Doesn't mean that it's official, supported, legal or virus free.

 

[captainstormy]

[QUOTE="Walkingwolf, post: 22419327, member: 243394"but many of the current PCs the bios is set up to only accept windows.[/QUOTE]

You're talking about UEFI bios? It was problematic when they first started coming out but typically now it's not an issue. I've built 10-12 desktops for friends and family in the past 2 years or so with UEFI bios.

 

[Japle]

Some of the comments are pretty funny.

After my military career, I was a computer geek for 11 years, mostly supervising production and QC for a medical equipment company. The products were PC-based and I dealt with Microsoft on a regular basis.

So, did I expect them to do what I wanted? Not really. Judging by my long experience with them, I expected to get the run-around and a pitch for buying something. I hoped for better. I have encountered MS employees who would cut a customer a break. It was worth the chance.

Was I surprised that they lied to me? Nope. Often, MS phone-bank wonks aren’t all that well trained and don’t know how to help a customer, even if they want to. Rather than bother their supervisor, they just make something up, usually leading to, “you can buy a solution to your problem for $XXX”.

I’ve been retired for 7 years and haven’t kept up with the latest in MS stuff. I’d have been better off calling one of my geeky buddies and asking them. The good news is, I learned something that might be useful some day.

 

[IndyGunFreak]

You're talking about UEFI bios? It was problematic when they first started coming out but typically now it's not an issue. I've built 10-12 desktops for friends and family in the past 2 years or so with UEFI bios.

Most of the well supported Linux distributions have UEFI support out of the box.

 

[captainstormy]

Most of the well supported Linux distributions have UEFI support out of the box.

That could be part of the reason it's not been an issue for me either. I've not really done any of the smaller linux distros for a while.

 

[GlockFan7]

There is no Home Pro Edition. Those are two different things. You paid Toshiba to install Windows not Microsoft. Microsoft has no responsibility here. Toshiba purchases what amounts to an OEM license to install Windows on their computers. I do the very same thing on the computers I build. The cost of a full retail licensed copy of Windows, with DVD, can cost nearly as much as some laptops these days, depending on which Windows version you want. Any and all support is the responsibility of the OEM, be it Toshiba, Dell, Asus or whoever the manufacturer is. The easiest way for you, would have been to purchase an OEM version of the desired Windows edition, generally $100 or more, then purchase or borrow a USB DVD drive and do a clean install. Actually, if Microsoft was offering you Windows 7 Home Edition for only $100, they were doing you a favor. They could have offered it to you at full retail. I was still a hardcore Windows fan, up to and including Windows 7. They lost me with 8. Windows 8 left a bad enough taste in my mouth, I haven't even previewed 10 yet. If 10 sucks as bad a 8, I'm headed to Linux, myself. I think I can probably get around the BIOS issue.

 

[F106 Fan]

The end user has every opportunity to delete bloatware from their system - unlike the crap on locked cell phones. Don't want McAfee? Delete it! It's pretty straightforward...

Furthermore, the end user has some measure of control over which programs run at startup besides the obvious solution of removing apps from the Startup menu item. Just enter mscconfig in the search box on the Start Menu. Then just wander through the list of startup items and deselect the useless nonsense.

If you really want to speed up the boot process, swap out the very slow hard drive (slow RPM to save power) with a Solid State Drive (SSD). MUCH faster!

 

[F106 Fan]

I was still a hardcore Windows fan, up to and including Windows 7. They lost me with 8. Windows 8 left a bad enough taste in my mouth, I haven't even previewed 10 yet. If 10 sucks as bad a 8, I'm headed to Linux, myself. I think I can probably get around the BIOS issue.

The current release version of Win 10 doesn't use that tiled desktop nonsense that makes a PC look like a cell phone. The start menu is a lot like Win 7 but the program list is a bit different in the way it is presented. I like it! There are some tiles on the start menu but they can be ignored.

The free Win 10 upgrade is an in-place upgrade. Win 7 has to be running and activated. The instructions say to have the Product ID code available (and they mean the Win 7 code) but I was never asked for it. Anyway, get a bigger hard drive (2 TB max - I'll discuss that in a moment) and install Win 7 into a suitable partition (say 1 TB) leaving the remaining 1 TB for Linux. Then upgrade Win 7 to Win 10 before installing Linux in the remaining unallocated space. Linux will provide the multi-boot menu.

If you don't want to do the multi-boot, just update to Win 10 and call it a day. You can back out if you want as the Win 7 files won't be deleted for 30 days. Yes, the deletion is automatic so if you want to save the files, copy them somewhere.

And then there is the UEFI BIOS... It turns out that unless you have a BIOS supporting UEFI, you can't use a drive larger than 2.1 TB. The thing is, you don't have that BIOS. Apple does but the PC world hasn't standardized on it yet so odds are, you don't have it. Spend some time on Google if you want to know more about the 2.1 TB limit and how to work with it.

So, what did I do? I bought a 3 TB drive and the install blew up... So I had to split a 1 TB drive that I had on hand and use the 3 TB drive on my NAS box.

 

[GlockFan7]

The current release version of Win 10 doesn't use that tiled desktop nonsense that makes a PC look like a cell phone. The start menu is a lot like Win 7 but the program list is a bit different in the way it is presented. I like it! There are some tiles on the start menu but they can be ignored.

The free Win 10 upgrade is an in-place upgrade. Win 7 has to be running and activated. The instructions say to have the Product ID code available (and they mean the Win 7 code) but I was never asked for it. Anyway, get a bigger hard drive (2 TB max - I'll discuss that in a moment) and install Win 7 into a suitable partition (say 1 TB) leaving the remaining 1 TB for Linux. Then upgrade Win 7 to Win 10 before installing Linux in the remaining unallocated space. Linux will provide the multi-boot menu.

If you don't want to do the multi-boot, just update to Win 10 and call it a day. You can back out if you want as the Win 7 files won't be deleted for 30 days. Yes, the deletion is automatic so if you want to save the files, copy them somewhere.

And then there is the UEFI BIOS... It turns out that unless you have a BIOS supporting UEFI, you can't use a drive larger than 2.1 TB. The thing is, you don't have that BIOS. Apple does but the PC world hasn't standardized on it yet so odds are, you don't have it. Spend some time on Google if you want to know more about the 2.1 TB limit and how to work with it.

So, what did I do? I bought a 3 TB drive and the install blew up... So I had to split a 1 TB drive that I had on hand and use the 3 TB drive on my NAS box.

All of my current Windows PCs have UEFI, but it's turned off in BIOS. I plan to leave it that way. I have Zoran Linux running on a dedicated PC.