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Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by RussP, Feb 8, 2010.
Therein is the difference. No laws forbid the actions of the group in the OP.
In my state or yours?
Again, nice try.
I'm a CCW instructor and a big gun rights proponent.
Open carry of a handgun won't get a second look from me.
It's legal here in NM and I see it fairly often.
Open carry of a rifle on a sling in an urban setting and I'll think you're an idiot attention whore. I'll be watching you as I leave. I don't want the drama in my life that you'll be attracting.
Carry a rifle in your hands while walking towards the restaurant my family is in and you're liable to have my gun pointed at you. Especially after the high profile "take-over" robberies we had in Albuquerque a while back.
Sorry dude, but carrying a rifle in an urban setting is the 2nd Amendment version of yelling "Fire!" in a theatre.
Incident took place in Michigan, their state. Answer isn't going to change.
Inspired by the "Because it's my right" crowd:
I wonder how the crew will feel when I, on my next traffic stop, approach the driver with an open-carried AR. I wonder what their response will be when I come to their house to take a burglary report, 6920 on a three-point. Will they support my right to carry when the "sheep" complain about the scary officer? Will they denounce the militarization of police?
Didn't answer the question which didn't include their state for a reason.
Like the image above, stare at it long enough and I'm sure you'll see it.
Well said. I'm all for it too but bringing a rifle in a restaurant is a bit too miuch. I don't care if you're trying to make a statement or whatever it just proves you're an idiot.
I had a convo with a county sheriff deputy about this incident a few days back and asked him about what he thought. He said that the issue that came up was that if you're sitting in a booth and the firearm isn't visible, it's considered concealed. Similar to the motor vehicle issue. Once you're in it's concealed. Now for a CCW holder that's no problem but if someone was open carrying in a restaurant without a CCW and sits in a booth where the firearm isn't in plain view he could be breaking the law. I'm not sure I agree with that 100% but at the same time I can see the problem. And the moron with the AR-15 over his shoulder just put the last nail in the coffin.
Check out the posts about the OC meeting at MIGUNOWNERS>ORG this has really been beaten to death, I don't believe this will happen again. Bringing a rifle to an OC meeting even if it does fall under the tech. definition of a pistol in Mich. this does tend to freak out people. I too would be on alert. ( I also at times OC) Brian Jeffs is a good man who will rethink about letting someone OC a rifle to the next get together.
I hope he will rethink that. I support their cause but I do think that they way they went about it this time was out of line.
+1, I agree! I find it funny that this guy gets bashed but then he offers a sappy attempt at an apology and everyone from the OC forum backs off saying, "no need for an apology", etc.
Early in my carrying career my brother and I attended an OC meet and greet, some of the same guys that replied to the above post. Very strange experience. Some of the guys were well spoken, calm and collected, out to educate and desensitize, yet some of them you could feel the arrogance and attitude. I decided after that day that OC wasn't for me. As I've mentioned, I'm thankful for the opportunity and legality, however for the most part its not for me.
+1, very good post. Whole-heartedly agree.
My own personal opinion.....carrying a rifle to dinner at ponderosa in South Lansing was not a sound decision.
Having anything that could even possibly be considered an argument with LEOs was an even more unsound decision.
Very well put. I wish there was someone in their group with this kind of reasoning that could have talked some sense into them. I especially want to comment on the part about respect of others. All of us, "Gun people" want to be shown respect for our rights. We need to show respect to those that don't see it the way we see it. It does work both ways. To get respect one has to show it. Shoving guns onto people is about as obnoxious as the anti's shoving their, "ban all guns" is to us.
Sounds like a odd way to desensitize people to firearms. Kind of like taking someone afraid of the water and throwing them overboard in the ocean.
I have no problem with open carry. A group of open carriers having lunch, acting normal, might change people's minds.
Unfortunately, confrontational people who are heavily armed can also change people's minds.
I support the legal carry of firearms no matter what the method. I have carried a firearm for more then 25 years. 99.998% of the time I CC, but once or twice in my life I have OC'd where there was limited exposure to the public. Anyone who lawfully carries a firearm will get no gripe from me but there can be side effects when dealing with the public and businesses.
Business owners think about liability as much as they do sales. You dont want to ask a business owner to choose between protecting your 2nd amend right and protecting his wallet. When someone OC's, they cause everyone who notices to form an opinion. Those who had otherwise been indifferent to the issue, suddenly feel effected. Opinions are followed by voices and voices are followed by action and actions lead to political pressure. This process can can work for gun carry as well as against it. Rights are not lost/restricted because you dont keep it on someones mind that you have them. Rights are lost because someone convinces a legislator to put pen to paper.
This will be a sticky for a while.
Dump Ponderosa and go to Ryan's. Tennessee is open carry. A group of us cowboys went into Ryan's to talk about SASS to the Tennessee Gun Owner's meeting in a side room a while back. Full cowboy regalia, stainless .45 Vaqueros, shotgun, pump .45 rifle, the whole nine yards. A few people were a bit perplexed, but overall it wasn't a big deal. Management was wonderful on that meeting and every other time when I've OC'd a 1911.