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Memory lane of choosing off duty gun.

  1. It was 1996 or 1997 when the NYPD approved 9mm off duty carry guns. These were the choices I was given :

    The Glock 26, Kahr K-9, Smith & Wesson 3914 DAO, Smith & Wesson 3953TSW, Smith & Wesson Model 640 (.38 revolver), the 38 Ruger sp101, and the Beretta 8000D Mini Cougar. All semi autos had the modified heavy triggers.

    I chose the Glock 26 in part because I had a Glock 19 as my service weapon already. I already had a 640 but only as a back up gun. In those days, I carried the service gun home. My perceived threat level was a lot higher then.

    The Glock 26 was my choice then. Under my current threat level and my last assignment, I might have chosen the Kahr k9 if I was working under those conditions

    What would have been your choice of off duty among those choices and ONLY those choices?

    And what would be your choice now among the current off duty carry options of the Glock 26, Smith & Wesson 3914 DAO, Smith & Wesson 3953TSW, Smith & Wesson Model 640 (.38 revolver), Springfield Armory XD-S, Smith & Wesson M&P Shield and the Beretta 8000D Mini Cougar?
    The 38 option is a grandfather cause only option for those who had the 38 before it was no longer an option.
  2. 3914 or G 26 for me
  3. G26 is the only one on there I'd have any interest in. I like revolvers, but not heavy ones for CCW.
  4. If I'm going to have to put up with a heavy NY style trigger, it's going to be a DAO revolver, not a pistol. I've long favored the S&W 3rd gen TDA guns, but not the DAO guns (regardless of whether it was the original shorter older DAO, or the newer one). I don't favor the Kahr or XD offerings (even if they didn't have a trigger heavy enough to pass muster with NYPD).

    My first choice would be the 640, followed by (if needs must) the Shield (thin and short).

    If I felt my threat/risk assessment was high, I'd simply carry the work weapon. I did that for several years when I carried a 4" .357MAG as a young cop, so I could do it again, if I had to put up with it.
  5. I would carry the 19 ,and did for many years. as a BU I would carry the 26
  6. Beretta mini Cougar but where are you going to find a new one??
  7. To me that's not memory lane. Memory Lane was when the choice was S&W Chiefs Special OR Colt Detectives Special. Than again I'm real old.
  8. I’d be ok with the baby Glock or the jframe. I have carried one or the other as backup/off duty guns since I began my career.

    The jframe more than anything else.

    I am a huge beretta fan but never cared for the rotating barrel models like the PX4 and Cougar.
  9. 3953 or the 640.
  10. Did you get to try them all before choosing?
  11. Me too.

    Duty choice was "any Colt or S&W revolver with 4"-6" barrel, of 6 shot capacity, capable of chambering 38 Special +P 125 grain JHP."

    You might see anything from Colt Police Postive thru Python, and K-N frame Smith's.

    Off duty was same brands, same chamberings, but 5-6 shots, and 2"-3" barrels. That opened up J frame Smith's. You could also select your duty weapon.

    All were self purchased.

    So it was, back in the Triassic.
  12. Nope. It was find them on your own time and buy one. I shot a few on my own before buying the Glock 26 and starting my single stack collection.

    As far choosing firearms and the NYPD. My academy class was told we were switching as a department to semi autos and to line up. We got to hold each service gun( Glock 19, Sig 226, or S&W 5946) for about 30 seconds each before we were asked, “which one and chose now”.

    I understand why that happened now. Just imagine if you were the range instructor and told, with only about two weeks to do it, that you had to get service guns not planned for( remember revolvers were planned for us) and give 2900 recruits their choice of sidearm.
  13. We had a new Chief who either didn't know much about guns, or could not write and effective directive. He issued a directive that officers must qualify with off-duty guns. Only revolvers allowed (early 1980's when we carried S&W 586 on duty) and they must be 38 caliber or "larger". Another officer and I promptly qualified with our model 29 44 magnums. We never really carried them, but we had to test the waters.

  14. I hear you.

    The standard was so loose for us that it allowed those who were reloaders to get 357 power out of our headstamped "38 +P" ammo. Sargents would pull the occasional inspection but the case stampings were the only thing checked. :)

    Do really miss all the free practice ammo. Especially these days.
  15. The G26 still seems to be a pretty good option, even 25 years later! Perhaps not the best for everyone, but still a viable option, and the gun I would choose (from the options allowed).
  16. Actually, the Glock 26 was not in the original listing of authorized off-duty semi-autos. How do I remember? Because the day after the first list came out I purchased a Kahr K-9.

    Picked it up in Chinatown and took it to the range in Bay Ridge. Put 50 rounds through it and couldn't believe the target. It looked like buckshot at 50 yards. Thought it was me. Unholstered my G 19 and emptied the mag as fast as I could. All 16 rounds were in one jagged hole center of mass.

    Boxed it up and took it into work the next day with a For Sale flyer that I made up at home. Stepped behind the desk at the 70 and another Lt. asked what was up. Told him the gun was a POS and couldn't hold a grouping for ****. He said he wanted it. I told him I wasn't kidding, it was really crappy. All he could see was the $50 off the list price. He said he would only carry it off duty so he didn't care about accuracy (?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!)

    We did the deal and the Glock 26 was added the next day. Interesting side story, as to why the Glock 26 was two days late. FTS had no intention of authorizing it due to reliability issues in testing. As soon as the authorized off duty list was released without the 26 a team of the Polymer Mafia flew up from Smyrna and went straight to the 14th floor of the puzzle palace. Whatever transpired in that meeting remains a mystery to this day.

    What isn't a mystery is the fact that within 24 hours the Glock 26 was added to the list by a follow-up FINEST message. Picked one up that day. Still have it.
  17. That is funny.
    I’m not surprised by the Glock mafia but I don’t think was a reliability issue. My G26 was more reliable than my G19 with many more rounds thru it. I’m more willing to bet that range wanted a change to the gun that Glock was not willing to make or got into it with the CO of the range.
    People always suspected how the Kahr K9 made the list and many other good guns didn’t. I think he had a bias against polymer guns. The Glock 19 was already issued to the transit police so that one would be hard to deny that it was good to go.
    Remember that CO of the range had the duty ammo as WWB 115 grain FMJ. Yes, that is correct. That was the ammo he had us carry. The housing police has hollowpoints as well as transit. There was no legit reason for his choice other than he didn’t want us to have semi autos and he didn’t trust them.

    And we were only to have 10 round magazines. In the academy we had 10 round magazines but that was switched by Bratton after PO Beckles got into that shootout at the hair salon where her off duty revolver went dry in the middle of the store being robbed. She was up against three assailants and did not have a reload.
  18. The Sig 239DAO was also an authorized off duty. One of my DT in the squad had one as his off duty. He was the only one I knew who carried the Sig239-maybe I didn't look around hard enough!

    I also knew of only 1 cop who had the Beretta Cougar as an off duty, when we were in PSA7 together as cops.

    I started with the Kahr K9 and really, really tried to like that soft, spongy trigger (when compared with Glock G19 NY2 trigger) but couldn't! In 2006 I got the G26, before the Department de-listed the K9. By then I was a certified Glock armorer and already made the decision to stay with Glocks.

    Never had much use for an off-duty, other than to have it available in my locker as a back-up gun. Pretty much my whole career I carried the G19 as my off-duty. During qualifications, I liked that the G26 could use G19 mags. Between the 1 G26 mag and my 3 G19 duty mags, I could load up all 50 rounds for the off-duty qual and never have to reload a magazine while on the line.

    I retired very, very recently (from, IMHO, a fairy tale career), in the mad rush out the door. The first thing I did was change out the NY2 springs with NY1 springs in my G26 and two G19s.
  19. Probably the G26 out of those choices. I had one when I was pretty new but traded it for a HK P7. It heated up too fast for anything there than shoot a mag in a minute. Then I sold the P7 to get seed money for a P7M8 for a little more shielding of the trigger and frame from heat. I wandered into a gun store and saw a K-Kote, night sight, 225 for a deal. Still have that. I may not have carried it in 15 years. Usually over that time I carried a CCO 1911.

    It seemed a little big for retirement and my threat level so I bought a 938 before retirement. Disaster. The mag release gets hit under recoil because I am left handed. I am probably going to sell it and my customized Colt that has been sitting for 10 years.

    I am probably going to pick up a lever gun or a scout rifle and some sort of retirement duty gun.

    Part of me wants to get a G26 because it is pretty small and I have 19 and 17 mags that I can feed it too.

    Another part wants to get a MK9 that is basically a slimmer G26. But it is more money and I can have heard mixed things on those.

    I also am considering a CCO 1911. Basically a spare to my current one. I generally don't like redundancy but I do have 3 full size 1911s and 1 Commander in addition to the CCO.

    Also a Kimber K6 appeals to me due to the revolver mixing the best of my 3 inch M66 and 642.

    As far as threats I live in Mayberry. My kids school is where I perceive the biggest threat and it is up in the mountains.
  20. You are right. I forgot to add the Sig 239...

    I knew one guy with the beretta and one guy with the Sig 239. The guy who had Sig bought an off duty that was just as big and heavier than his service Glock. He never carried it.
    The guy with the beretta was in the squad and carried it as his primary when out of uniform which was always.

    I should change the change out the springs to NY1. My original configuration of the gun. But I appendix carry the G26 and the G19?only comes out for LEOSA requals. I’m used to the heavy trigger. I’m in no rush. They aren’t my primary EDC.
  21. If I could pick only one, the G26. If I could have a second one it would be the Smith 640. My most often carried concealed are a S&W M&P40c (Glock 26 size) and a S&W 642.
  22. UF61, I have to say this thread is superbly timely. Just last week I was still waking up at 0400 hrs thinking I need to do this-or-that when I get to the office. Thankfully that has stopped!

    And based on something seanmac45 posted on another thread previously, I realized last night that I could CCW the NYPD Ruger Speed six or GPNY if I wanted to. LOL!!!!

    GPNY only.JPG
  23. Carry the dump pouches too...lol ... and the swivel holster too-lol

    And I still have the old Nyclad 38 semi wadcutter ammo for my old off duty 38. I never had the old service revolver.
  24. Not being a cop, if my duty pistol was a Glock19, I would think the Glock 26 would be a great carry.
  25. Out of the original choices, yes. When the choice of the M&P shield and Springfield XDS, most people I worked with jumped on it. Smaller thinner gun. Round capacity was secondary in an off duty / back up gun for most of us.
  26. Yes, thank you for this nice, nostalgic thread UF61.

    As to revolvers I started out walking a solo footpost on Tompkins Avenue back in June of 1982.

    Had my authorized S&W Model 10 in the Jay Pee kidney pouch holster on my belt.

    Backup was a Beretta 84 on my ankle. Having 14 rounds of .380 to access seemed a neat idea at the time. Once it got colder I switched to a 1911.

    The good old days.
  27. The G26 is a great complement carry to the G19/G17 because the G26 can accept all the longer mags. I've always carried a G19 mag as the spare, so on the rare occasion when I did carry the G26, I never gave a second thought about the spare mag.

    Also, with my hand size, double stack guns just fitted me better.
  28. I carried a G26 or a S&W 649 .38spl snubby for many, many years off duty.
  29. You win for fastest change to most relevant Avatar!!!!!! LMFAO
  30. Glock 26 for the win! When they first came out, there was a mad rush to get them. We were issued G19s, so it was the logical choice. Right after, we transitioned to G23s and G27s for plainclothes.
  31. Though never a LEO, I found the Glock 26 a superb carry pistol that was incredibly accurate, reliable, and easily hidden on my medium sized body.

  32. Great catch there, seanmac45. beetlejuice!
  33. A gun at work has 2-3 Beretta 84 pistols. Couple variations of them over the years. He pretty much buys one whenever he comes across one.

    Pretty neat little gun. If it was cocked and locked it would be perfect.
  34. You had me at Glock 26. I qualify under my agencies "grandfather cause" for revolvers. But revolvers are not practical in big cities.

    Back in the 1980s and 1990s our policy changed every time we got a new chief. All the changes made for a big gun collection. :fred: