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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This is NOT meant to be a political thread on executive orders to wear masks in public. This is a quick explanation on different types of masks and why/how they are used.

1) N-95 masks - filters out 95% of airborne particulars down to 0.3 microns (bacterial sizes). They are designed to protect the wearer from particles floating in air. In medical settings, they protect against airborne pathogens - pathogens that we exhale in our breaths AND stay viable as suspension aerosols for a long time. Measles is a prime example of this type of aerosolized airborne pathogen. COVID-19 is probably not, but we are not 100% sure.

Problem with public/mass use of N95 - N95 must be properly and professionally fitted to each individual person to be effective. In fact, each time we change manufacturer, we need to individually re-fit everyone that wears them in the hospital. And fit failure rate is actually quite high. Fitting includes checking for air seal while doing various activities. An improperly fitted and worn N95 is useless against airborne infection. You might as well wear a cut up t-shirt - cheaper and easier to find and equally (in)effective. People running out to buy N95 and using them without proper fit testing are basically wasting their money and not getting the protection they think they have.

Medical danger/harm of N95 - When properly fitted and worn, N95 significantly reduces airflow. A properly fitted and worn N95 is actually fairly uncomfortable. Most people can't do that for more than an hour or so at a time. People with lung or breathing problems should NOT wear N95. We do NOT allow people with asthma, COPD, or other lung diseases to wear N95 masks. Too dangerous for them. They are fitted with hooded PAPR (hooded power respirator). That's also why we don't use N95 masks when we expect the procedure will be prolonged - we go to a PAPR in those situations or take breaks during procedures. So, people with respiratory problems buying N95 on their own to use in public - I hope they are wearing them incorrectly because a properly worn N95 will very likely hurt them and put them in the ER with hypoxia/hypercapnea.

2) Non-N95 masks ("Surgical masks" or even regular cloth masks) - They protect you from large droplets - think of tiny spits from coughing and sneezing. These droplets don't go far and drop to the ground quickly. They are more of a threat as a contact transmission - meaning touching contaminated spit and touching your own face. Or having these spits coughed directly onto your face. Point is, these pathogens do not suspend in the air for any significant amount of time because the droplets containing/protecting them are too large to suspend in air. This is where flu virus transmission actually falls in.

From a practical standpoint, these non-N95 (surgical/cloth) masks effectively protect the public from the wearer. And since most aerosolizing/airborne threats start out as large droplets, these masks can protect the public from the wearer's airborne threat - we call that "controlling the source" or "effective source control." When a surgeon wears a mask during surgery, he/she is not protecting himself/herself from you. He/she is protecting you from him/her. So, the wearing masks in public order is NOT meant to protect you from getting the virus. It is to protect the public from you in case you are infected (symptomatic or not) and are out and about in public spreading the virus.

This is also why my post in "Cop Talk" recommends that if the LEO only has one mask and is transporting a prisoner, put the mask on the prisoner rather than wearing the mask himself. It offers more protection for the LEO by controlling the source of infection (the prisoner).
 

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Thanks - this is what I've been thinking since February - stated much more eloquently.
 

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M62/76
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Picard- I appreciate your info and insight in various posts during this COVID pandemic. Thank you
 

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Make It So!!
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hypoxia. Must be why the N100’s give me a headache after a few hours.
Yep, probably the reason. I would not want to wear a N100 for any prolong period of time. I'd rather use a PAPR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
A quick explanation on why we are not sure if COVID is an airborne threat. We know it's a droplet threat because we can recover intact infectious virus from large droplets (coughing/sneezing spits and such).

And yes, we have recovered viral RNA's from various surfaces and such. However, recovering viral RNA is not the same thing as recovering intact infectious virus. If you are only looking for body parts, a dead body will give you body parts just as well as a live body. So, we are not sure if COVID is an airborne threat. We don't think so, but we can't be 100% sure at this time.
 

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This is NOT meant to be a political thread on executive orders to wear masks in public. This is a quick explanation on different types of masks and why/how they are used.

1) N-95 masks - filters out 95% of airborne particulars down to 0.3 microns (bacterial sizes). They are designed to protect the wearer from particles floating in air. In medical settings, they protect against airborne pathogens - pathogens that we exhale in our breaths AND stay viable as suspension aerosols for a long time. Measles is a prime example of this type of aerosolized airborne pathogen. COVID-19 is probably not, but we are not 100% sure.

Problem with public/mass use of N95 - N95 must be properly and professionally fitted to each individual person to be effective. In fact, each time we change manufacturer, we need to individually re-fit everyone that wears them in the hospital. And fit failure rate is actually quite high. Fitting includes checking for air seal while doing various activities. An improperly fitted and worn N95 is useless against airborne infection. You might as well wear a cut up t-shirt - cheaper and easier to find and equally (in)effective. People running out to buy N95 and using them without proper fit testing are basically wasting their money and not getting the protection they think they have.

Medical danger/harm of N95 - When properly fitted and worn, N95 significantly reduces airflow. A properly fitted and worn N95 is actually fairly uncomfortable. Most people can't do that for more than an hour or so at a time. People with lung or breathing problems should NOT wear N95. We do NOT allow people with asthma, COPD, or other lung diseases to wear N95 masks. Too dangerous for them. They are fitted with hooded PAPR (hooded power respirator). That's also why we don't use N95 masks when we expect the procedure will be prolonged - we go to a PAPR in those situations or take breaks during procedures. So, people with respiratory problems buying N95 on their own to use in public - I hope they are wearing them incorrectly because a properly worn N95 will very likely hurt them and put them in the ER with hypoxia.

2) Non-N95 masks ("Surgical masks" or even regular cloth masks) - They protect you from large droplets - think of tiny spits from coughing and sneezing. These droplets don't go far and drop to the ground quickly. They are more of a threat as a contact transmission - meaning touching contaminated spit and touching your own face. Or having these spits coughed directly onto your face. Point is, these pathogens do not suspend in the air for any significant amount of time because the droplets containing/protecting them are too large to suspend in air. This is where flu virus actually falls in.

From a practical standpoint, these non-N95 (surgical/cloth) masks effectively protect the public from the wearer. And since most aerosolizing/airborne threats start out as large droplets, these masks protect the public from the wearer's airborne threat - we call that "controlling the source" or "effective source control." When a surgeon wears a mask during surgery, he/she is not protecting himself/herself from you. He/she is protecting you from him/her. So, the wearing masks in public order is NOT meant to protect you from getting the virus. It is to protect the public from you in case you are infected (symptomatic or not) and are out and about in public spreading the virus.

This is also why my post in "Cop Talk" recommends that if the LEO only has one mask and is transporting a prisoner, put the mask on the prisoner rather than wearing the mask himself. It offers more protection for the LEO by controlling the source of infection (the prisoner).
So when a state or federal government suggests we wear a mask, are you saying we are better off not wearing an N-95? What is your alternative?
 

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Make It So!!
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So when a state or federal government suggests we wear a mask, are you saying we are better off not wearing an N-95? What is your alternative?
I personally wouldn't want to wear a N95 all day long in public. When properly fitted and worn, my limit on a N95 is about an hour or two max before it becomes too uncomfortable that I need to take it off. So no, having the general public wearing N95 in public makes absolutely no sense. If nothing else, overwhelming majority of them will not be fitted and are wearing them incorrectly. So, they are not really getting airborne threat protection anyways.

Public masking has nothing to do with protecting the wearer. It's to protect the public from the wearer's spit and cough. So, a regular cloth mask will work just fine for that purpose.
 

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https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-can-spread-as-an-aerosol.html

May be some methodological probs with the above, and it’s certainly plausible that something other than airborne particles is the main driver of transmission. Maybe the binding affinity for ACE 2 receptors is so high that a little bit goes a long way. Clearly something is causing the R0 to be wicked. Whatever be the case, I’m going to do the selfish thing and don PPE ever time I’m around other people for the foreseeable future. My half mask passes positive and negative pressure checks, and leaves deep red lines in an uninterrupted pattern around my mouth and nose.
 

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Putting any type of mask on every potentially sick person is more effective than a N95 mask to protect yourself.

Just a different way of saying it since some still seem to struggle with understanding why N95 in public isn’t necessary much less practical.

When we are determining quarantine/don’t quarantine of staff the first question asked is “was the patient masked?”

Then we ask was staffed masked and how long was the exposure. Because, if the patient was masked the likelihood of exposure is significantly less than if only the staff were wearing a mask.

So if everyone wore a simple homemade mask, your chances of being exposed are lower than if you were wearing an N95 but others weren’t masked.

In other words, stay away from people who don’t wear masks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Make It So!!
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I’ve seen a few folks wearing simple 3M dust masks. How do those compare with the DIY cloth masks or the surgical masks?
Since the idea is to prevent your cough/spit from getting everywhere when you are in public, dust masks are probably just as good as reasonably made DIY cloth masks or surgical masks.
 

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If it's a true airborne virus, we're really hosed.

But it can also be good news. It means much of the population already got it, and seems to do fine.

It means if you're sitting on the plane coming back from Italy, you were infected.
It means if you had been to a grocery store, you most likely got it, or any eateries, or anywhere with people.
It means it's more common and part of your daily routine.
It means death rate is much lower than it seems.

The "truth" may be revealed with an accurate antibody test. If huge percentage of a random sample reveals infection, then indirect evidence says it can fly.
 

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Droplet transmission occurs when a person is in in close contact (within 1 m) with someone who has respiratory symptoms (e.g., coughing or sneezing) and is therefore at risk of having his/her mucosae (mouth and nose) or conjunctiva (eyes) exposed to potentially infective respiratory droplets. Transmission may also occur through fomites in the immediate environment around the infected person.8 Therefore, transmission of the COVID-19 virus can occur by direct contact with infected people and indirect contact with surfaces in the immediate environment or with objects used on the infected person (e.g., stethoscope or thermometer).

Airborne transmission is different from droplet transmission as it refers to the presence of microbes within droplet nuclei, which are generally considered to be particles <5μm in diameter, can remain in the air for long periods of time and be transmitted to others over distances greater than 1 m.
 

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Yup I had to get refitted to that mask every year, so did all nursing staff in the hospital.
 

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Now can you do a PSA telling all the idiots wearing gloves at the store that they are doing it wrong and wasting the gloves that a smarter person could use effectively? It's driving me nuts seeing people touch EVERYTHING with their gloves, including the germy shopping cart handles only to then touch their cell phone, purse, wallet, debit card, keys, face and THEN some even get in their car and drive with them on after leaving the store.

I saw a guy glove up at the gas pump prior to touching the pump. After paying and then touching the pump handle, the guy used the same gloves to open his car door and grab his cell phone before putting the pump handle back. He then got back in his truck by grabbing the steering wheel before taking the gloves off.
 
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