Glock Talk banner
1 - 20 of 42 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
11,886 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's what I get for linking from Drudge. FT is one of the most stingy for articles.

In short, default jitters means no one is keeping money in any Greek banks. Long lines at the ATMs because folks are pulling money. Lots of cash going into tangibles, worries about accounts being raided ala Cyprus. Familiar story.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,698 Posts
That's what I get for linking from Drudge. FT is one of the most stingy for articles.

In short, default jitters means no one is keeping money in any Greek banks. Long lines at the ATMs because folks are pulling money. Lots of cash going into tangibles, worries about accounts being raided ala Cyprus. Familiar story.
It's a preview of what's coming if we don't pull our heads out of our asses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LongGun1

· Registered
Joined
·
4,429 Posts
It's a preview of what's coming if we don't pull our heads out of our asses.
We won't.

Bread & circuses, or the modern-day equivalent thereof. The 'bread' being EBT cards and income tax credits for people who don't pay income tax. The circuses? Just look at any alleged 'news' broadcast or any checkout-line magazine rack. Whether it's the Kardashian/Jenner barnyard that every media outlet insists on filming, or the "in-depth news reports" dissecting the latest episode of The Bachelorette, or the fact that 'national news' stories include (just this week) Brittney Spears' new haircut. In just my lifetime, the "news" has devolved into little more than mindless cesspools of trite psychological pap and emotional masturbation.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,698 Posts
We won't.

Bread & circuses, or the modern-day equivalent thereof. The 'bread' being EBT cards and income tax credits for people who don't pay income tax. The circuses? Just look at any alleged 'news' broadcast or any checkout-line magazine rack. Whether it's the Kardashian/Jenner barnyard that every media outlet insists on filming, or the "in-depth news reports" dissecting the latest episode of The Bachelorette, or the fact that 'national news' stories include (just this week) Brittney Spears' new haircut. In just my lifetime, the "news" has devolved into little more than mindless cesspools of trite psychological pap and emotional masturbation.
Completely agree.

Not really related, but the current "secret legislation" is yet another example of what's rapidly turning into a ruling class who believe they know what is better for us than we do.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
301 Posts
I am VERY concerned about our government "taxing" my rollover IRA at rates of 40%, or 50%, or more, in an attempt to keep the shell game going - I'd really like to get my IRA money out of the US and put it somewhere that our government doesn't have the clout to grab any part of what's mine - I can draw my IRA money out, but I'll get clobbered with taxes because it'll be considered regular income - any suggestions?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,429 Posts
...I can draw my IRA money out, but I'll get clobbered with taxes because it'll be considered regular income - any suggestions?
Not to sound sarcastic, but a good financial planner and trust lawyer would be my recommendation for a first step.

Good financial advice saves (or makes) you more than it costs. If it doesn't save more than it costs, then it's simply not good advice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cowboywannabe

· 10mm Philosopher
Joined
·
6,634 Posts
* * * Whether it's the Kardashian/Jenner barnyard that every media outlet insists on filming, or the "in-depth news reports" dissecting the latest episode of The Bachelorette, or the fact that 'national news' stories include (just this week) Brittney Spears' new haircut. In just my lifetime, the "news" has devolved into little more than mindless cesspools of trite psychological pap and emotional masturbation.
Couldn't agree more. If you want accurate, "hard news" stories about real people & real events, and not opinionated info-mercials masquerading as "news coverage" but really conveying left-wing cultural spin, ... you won't find it on mainstream t.v., newspapers, or from any Establishment media. :rolleyes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: cowboywannabe

· Registered
Joined
·
15,897 Posts
"secret legislation" - a pejorative.

Let's review what most people don't know or take into consideration:

1. the legislators are in a continuous round of campaigning, fund raising, rallying the troops. They are authorized to and do hire aides who specialize in reading, synopsizing, drafting and making recommendations re potential legislation,

2. the "secret legislation" that is currently receiving media attention is a bill that considers cross treaties with at least 1/2 dozen nations. If all of the provisions are made public, they are made public to the countries who are in the process of negotiations, to the detriment, purportedly of the USA.
No Congressman has been forbidden to view the document.

3. In the past, it was not Congressmen who negotiated with foreign countries for treaties and this includes trade treaties. It was the Executive Branch that negotiated.

Back to the original "Greek problem". Greece is just a small example of human nature - spend without considering how the money will be raised . Please understand the following. All of the Greek national bonds and loans to that government from European institutions could be forgotten and the country would still be in bad shape. Taxes are imposed at the national level and none at the local level. Municipalities are given money. The retirement system was and has always been underfunded, takes up 75% of the budget and provides a 13 month payment of benefits yearly. There are barriers to entry into occupations and stores are restricted in what can be sold (which would shock the heck out of some of us who frequent Walmart or Costco). The outstanding bill to foreign medicine manufacturers is 1.3 billion for last year. The annual budget runs a deficit. Infrastructure? Start laughing.

Now for the bank reserves. You can imagine that banks have cash in a vault. Oh no. If a bank has a loss in its business, it can carry forward the loss and offset it against a future profit. So, a loss on the books is an "asset". Deposits are backed by "assets". Over 60% of the "assets" of the 4 leading
Greek banks are "losses being carried forward".

And, dear folks, if you think that is bad, research Puerto Rico which is insolvent - unable to pay current and long term obligations.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,698 Posts
"secret legislation" - a pejorative.

Let's review what most people don't know or take into consideration:

1. the legislators are in a continuous round of campaigning, fund raising, rallying the troops. They are authorized to and do hire aides who specialize in reading, synopsizing, drafting and making recommendations re potential legislation,

2. the "secret legislation" that is currently receiving media attention is a bill that considers cross treaties with at least 1/2 dozen nations. If all of the provisions are made public, they are made public to the countries who are in the process of negotiations, to the detriment, purportedly of the USA.
No Congressman has been forbidden to view the document.

3. In the past, it was not Congressmen who negotiated with foreign countries for treaties and this includes trade treaties. It was the Executive Branch that negotiated.

Back to the original "Greek problem". Greece is just a small example of human nature - spend without considering how the money will be raised . Please understand the following. All of the Greek national bonds and loans to that government from European institutions could be forgotten and the country would still be in bad shape. Taxes are imposed at the national level and none at the local level. Municipalities are given money. The retirement system was and has always been underfunded, takes up 75% of the budget and provides a 13 month payment of benefits yearly. There are barriers to entry into occupations and stores are restricted in what can be sold (which would shock the heck out of some of us who frequent Walmart or Costco). The outstanding bill to foreign medicine manufacturers is 1.3 billion for last year. The annual budget runs a deficit. Infrastructure? Start laughing.

Now for the bank reserves. You can imagine that banks have cash in a vault. Oh no. If a bank has a loss in its business, it can carry forward the loss and offset it against a future profit. So, a loss on the books is an "asset". Deposits are backed by "assets". Over 60% of the "assets" of the 4 leading
Greek banks are "losses being carried forward".

And, dear folks, if you think that is bad, research Puerto Rico which is insolvent - unable to pay current and long term obligations.
Not to hijack the thread but Congress could only view 1 of the 3 trade bills and were unable to seek advice from the aides you referenced as they were forbidden from discussing the 1 bill they were "allowed" to view before voting on it. I wonder why they voted no. Citing secrecy to protect a bill is a slippery slope. Transparency in government is key to keeping the people's trust. How's Obamacare working out for the vast majority of the country?

Back to Greece...I fully expect our government to come after deposits to cover losses, as did Greece, when the other shoe drops and the Fed is no longer able to control inflation. As a result, I am happy to invest in tangible property that will retain value after the dollar is worthless. I hope people are working on keeping their financial preps as solid as their physical preps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cowboywannabe

· Watcher.
Joined
·
41,319 Posts
We own all we got, no real debt at all. Off grid at will water food for years. I saw this coming years ago.'08. :)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
15,897 Posts
Well, history does seem to repeat itself.
1. Politicians (kings/"leaders") borrow money that they cannot repay.
2. Politicians grab treasure (Cyprus), break promises (US vets will have great medical care), break treaties (of yes, look at the American Indian tribes);
3. Politicians promise a job, hope and a place in the lifeboat (with modern technology these are call sound bites at carefully staged press conferences whereat only pre-approved questions are allowed to be asked).
4. Politicians blame the other guy and cast their constituency as a collection of victims.

Greece could have been honest about its finances and never applied for membership in the EU.
Greece wasn't forced to borrow money and individuals and countries were not forced to loan Greece monies.

I laugh. The Greek leadership tried a month ago to get Putin to pre-pay gas pipeline routes across Greece royalties. Today, the Greek leadership is approaching Sovereign Funds for investments - conveniently forgetting that it reneged on selling state owned properties in the last year. Putin doesn't have to loan any money. He already loaned money to Cyprus and received warship docking and re-supply rights there.

For those less versed in finance, some observations of a practical nature. Paper currency has only the value that people give to it. The Greek government, when it finally cannot pay its bills, will print a new currency (call it scrip or Drachmas or Greek Dollars). It will try to pay the government employees, the retirees (state paid retirements), and its bills for produce, hospital goods, roads with the new currency. The locals already know the basic unit of the new currency will not be backed with gold, silver or a pile of foreign currencies. The government will print and print and print new currency. The people won't want it. Like Germans in the early 1930s burned German marks as stove fuel, the Greeks will not want to accept the New Currency. Such is why the Greeks do not wish to have the Euro lost as the currency in circulation, but it will.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
15,897 Posts
The "reforms" demanded by the creditors will eventually be adopted or Greece will become a failed state. It doesn't matter in this regard whether Greece "adopts" the reforms to stay in or leaves.

Reforms:
1. balance the national budget;
2. make the value added tax (applied in most European countries) equally among all parts of Greece (which isn't the current case) and increase it;
3. lower pension payments (no IRA or Keoughs there) which include a 13th month payment. The payments are way out of line with state paid pensions in other EU members;
4. go after tax evaders;
5. eliminate unreasonable restraints on competition.
6. better accounting practices.
7. lower the minimum wage.

People do try to act rationally (when forced to do so). If a young person can't get a job, he leaves the country. The brightest and most ambitious first. If a wealthy person has a choice of investing his money in an unstable country or a stable country, he only chooses the unstable country if the indicated rate of return is commensurate with the risk. So wealth will leave the country because it is becoming increasingly unstable.

When a country issues a fiat currency like the former Rhodesia, the financial system falls apart. No one saves. No one banks. They spend the money as fast as they can. Merchants cannot buy product because the manufacturers and suppliers will not accept a rapidly depreciating currency.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
11,886 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·

· Registered
Joined
·
15,897 Posts
The current US federal/state/local debt except for unfunded retirements is about 115% of GDP - gross disposable product. Until 2005, Greece was running about 100%. Greece does not have local governments impose income taxes. And, to my knowledge, they do not issue bonds or borrow. The federal government collects the taxes and distributes the money to local governments.

Since 2005, the Greek debt has climbed to over 175% of GDP. When there are complaints about "austerity", please note that generalized promises of reforms were not implemented.

Most of the "payments" have been from special fund reserves set up as part of past loans and more recently by raiding the reserves of local governments, the equivalent of social security, and some bank reserves. The external payments owing for prescription medications alone is over $1.3 billion.

If you thought that the problem was that payments for external debt owing by Greece was eating up the national budget, now you are disabused of that notion. I already pointed out that over 50% of bank "assets" were carry forwards of bank losses. Well, 72% of the home mortgages have not been paid recently. Over 50% of the young, employable people are unemployed.

So, go ahead, Greece. Default. Repudiate all the loans. You still have to pay your current bills (no Greek national credit card is acceptable). You have to replenish your captured local government reserves, the equivalent of social security reserves, and the federal reserves. You can go ahead and print money (which will be substantially discounted immediately) and learn that the banks that took deposits in euros will not be able to allow withdrawals in euros because they are insolvent. The retirees will receive their haircut when you issue IOUs or heavily discounted drachmas.

Bad situation. Just wanted you to understand that Greece's problems were not caused by greedy lenders, but by its lack of leadership.
 

· Watcher.
Joined
·
41,319 Posts
Only a fool would have any money in a greek bank,their mess will be ours soon enough.We have on hand silver/gold for when it happens.I don't know if any of you recall my "Decisions" thread here on GT,some idiot trolled it and got it locked.It's out there in cyberspace and does hinge well with this mess.It was about a dry run practice and the problems found and fixed and improved upon.'08.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
11,886 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Got me interested. I need to find that thread.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top